Thread: Learning Jnats with Microscope

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Curious, what is the claimed benefit of not using tape through the whole honing process?

Interesting honing video, I too am a big fan of stropping on linen between stones. Also fan of edge parallel honing for removing stria quickly.

It appears your Diamond slurry is finer than the Sho- Honyama. Is that 400 grit diamond plate slurry?

How many laps are you doing per set? If you do the half lap, back and forth stroke, like in the video, make you final laps, single directional, I do pull strokes to even out the final stria pattern on each stone. 10-15 are all you need.

I like the red background, the edge looks very straight.
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Hi!

First of all, thanks for your previous post regarding Naguras. I'll work on the Mejiro as you suggested.


Regarding the method in the video there are two thinghs to point out. First, here in Italy beginners are always advised to use a 3k to create the bevel. Not many start from 1K or 2K so, (second) I think that he wants to propose a limited use (also limited to the first part of the bevel near the edge) of a more aggressive stone, which eliminates any chips and quickly forms the bevel. Also, I believe he wants to show that there is not much difference between using and not using tape. As you know, using or not using tape is a dilemma that plagues many beginners. Btw. I prefer to use (my) 1k instead than (my) 3k to set the bevel... also if the blade is brand new and has nothing to be corrected. I find it fast and reliable.

I have these two diamond plates: the big chinese one (400/1000) & the small/a bit worn Eze-Lap 1200. To make slurry on Jnats I use the Eze-Lap.



I don't count laps except for the bevel stage (then I use a first series of 21 half strokes x side, followed by series of 11 as needed. Usually 1 or 2 series are enough. Blade at 45° and heel first. Eventually some x-strokes and/or rolling x if needed).
When on the Nakayama/Ozuku & Slurry...I alternate circles, full strokes, half strokes, x-strokes and/or rolling-x strokes. Sometime I finish with some spine leading (strop) strokes, sometime not. Of course I start with some pressure, progressively lightening it

I like red b.ground too... Happy you found the bevel straight enough! It means your lessons are not lost in the wind...

It sounds like he is trying to minimize spine wear and, a 2 or 3k will easily set a bevel if there is no edge damage. If you want the shallower angle but still want spine protection, use Kapton tape only after setting the bevel.

So, with synthetic stones we do a progression to refine the stria. The stria will terminate at the edge as a micro serrated edge. The smaller the stria, the smaller the serrations.

But with Jnats, there are no striation because of the random shape and size of the grit, and that the binder releases grit while honing. So, while we cannot compare stria size, width, and depth, we can compare the Kazumi, pebble finish to each other.

The more refined the pebble finish, the straighter the edge. A very refined Kazumi finish will appear sandblasted. And what we are after is a uniform pebble finish, removal of all the synthetic stria, and a straight edge.

The traditional method/progression of Jnat honing has been a progression of stones or Nagura or both. First bevel set on a low grit aggressive stone or Nagura, like Botan, Black Tsushima or any other aggressive nagura.

Or use a synthetic progression and refine the bevel to a near mirror finish, then build a Kazumi finish on a near stria-less finish, so you are only dealing with building a Jnat finish and not removing stria.

So, if we start from a near mirror, the only issue is, are your stones fine enough, base and nagura? Here is an experiment you can try.

Take a piece of smooth cardboard, inside of a cereal box, 5-6”X12” and paste with 3” X’s, place on the edge of a counter and strop about 50-100 laps. This should remove almost all the stria and leave a near mirror finish bevel. The edge will be rough and unshaveable. Now build the Jnat Kasumi finish on that bevel and see how fine a pebble finish you can achieve. Once the Tomo’s arrive you can experiment further with nagura.

My main concern for now, is the Mejiro finer than your diamond slurry, you may be going backwards in your progression.

This is a good technique for testing stone finish that I have used, I use a paper pasted hanging strop, remove all stria and build a bevel and edge on just the test stone.

One other thing about shaving with that razor, the cracks have micro sharp corners that are cutting or at least scratching your skin and that could be the cause of irritation.

You know enough and using tape, that you can experiment on a better-quality razor, and using a cracked razor may be holding your back. I would also be concerned that you are not getting even pressure across the whole edge due to the cracks.

Nice progress so far.

Hi Euclid!

Just worked on te Mejiro the way you suggested... and also flattened a small Nakayama's Tomo which arrived as a gift from the same vendor. When the other Tomos will be at home (still in Italian postage processing center, together with a beautiful NOS Japanese razor I ordered sometime ago... ) I'll have to experiment for the whole century ahead!

Btw. I want to reassure you that the cracked razor didn't gave me any irritation, and shaved deep & smooth as never before. Of course, won't be my daily razor for the future...

My next tests will be done either on the new razor (using kapton of course) and on many other (cheap) ones I got since I started using the straight razors last year. Made a bit of self training on these... and some shave very well, despite the fact that were honed by me and finished over an unknown italian stone some months ago... I.e. before the Jnats "era".
Will check soon with the microscope: I'm curious to see how the bevel and edge will look.

Originally Posted by Skorpio58

(Some old & cheap razors) Made a bit of self training on these... and some shave very well, despite the fact that were honed by me and finished over an unknown italian stone some months ago... I.e. before the Jnats "era".
Will check soon with the microscope: I'm curious to see how the bevel and edge will look.

Checked today the one which shaved better than all. It was honed last september and shaved 5 times. As for my notes it has been honed with an unbranded 3k/8K and then with the unknown italian stone named "Curgèle". First with slurry and the underwater.

The razor is a classic Solingen 6/8" FH blade marked "Lasso"... paid 10€ and cleaned by me.

The stone is very hard and has some minor problems (a little hole on sharpening face and pretty sharp edges, hard to round. At time I flattened it with silicon carbide powder 220/400 G and 800 sandpaper (btw. today I flattened it again with 400/1000 diamond plate).

Microscope images showed a quite fine stria pattern & quite straight edge (plus some minor edge chips, not shown here, due to bad scales closure).
Tomorrow I'll shave with it again (are some months from the last one) and then I'll hone again with actual Jnats... so to compare the results.

If it is a hard novaculite it can trash a diamond plate, pull the diamonds out.

If you use loose Silicone Carbide, make sure you get all the grit out of the holes, then seal with a few drops of CA glue. Let air dry a day or two and lap with a sheet of 600 Wet and Dry.

I like to do Novaculites with 600 on one side and take the other side up to 2k, then burnish with large flat carbon steel, I use an old cleaver to apply lots of pressure.

The CA is softer than the stone and will wear away with use but keep grit from collecting in the holes.

Not sure if it can be a Novaculitis (in this case I should use with oil...), as I never heard about it from Italy. More probable it's a sort of Slate (maybe with some inclusions of other materials). It come from a region (southern Piemonte) very near some zones where Black Slates are extracted frequently (Ardesia Ligure, aka Princesa).

The small town of "Cortiglione", is named Curgèle in local dialect. The stone should come from there or nearby.

Anyway... I'll seal the hole and flat it as you suggested.

Does it slurry, if so, what color?

Yes, it slurry quite easily with my small 1200 eze-lap. Color I'd say is white/clear gray.

Yes, probably a hard state, pretty stone, nice barber size.

You should be ok using a Diamond plate. Try some Diamond slurry and oil. If you wash with soap after use the oil will not penetrate.

I have sent you a Black Tsushima and small dark blue Escher slurry stone that may work very well with that hard slate.

You can also use Smith’s synthetic honing oil or Ballistol to hone on in place of oil, they are both water soluble and wash off with water but give the feel of honing on oil. Smith’s works well on slates, coticules and Arks.

Yep, I worked with slurry and in water... and went quite nicely. When I'll decide to test it again maybe I'll try with Ballistol (I used it with Llyn Idwal).

First stone to test will be Tsushima with Nakayama & Ozuku (instead of diamond slurry, as we said in previous thread)...