Thread: Learning Jnats with Microscope

In Italy we say: "We defeat the enemy through exhaustion".
An ironic way of saying that we didn't do anything in particular aimed at that result (removing the chip)...

Update after the Sixth round:

This shave too went well, with the usual slight differences from the previous ones.

1) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Nakayama (1) Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

2) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Asagi Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

3) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Ozuku Suita = Shave Test OK

4) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Nakayama Kiita = Shave Test OK

5) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Red Ohira = Shave Test OK

6) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Kiita Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

Yep... I received yesterday a new razor: a very nice Gong (by ERN) Solingen - 5/8" FH...

It's the second razor I bought from a vendor that states as "Shave Ready" the blades after a Naniva 3K pro. First time I tested the razor as it was and got a decent shave (!) but this time I decided to finish the job by myself on Jnats. I haven't reset the bevel as it was already sharp and passed treetop test. Used 1 layer of Kapton tape.

Driven by the results of my (still going on) comparative tests on Naguras, this time I decided to use the Ozuku as base stone, and used a sequence of Black Tsushima -> Mejiro -> Ozuku Suita Naguras. As the edge showed some micro chips, I made 2 rounds with Tsushima, but the one that eliminated the chips definately has been the Ozuku Suita. Curiously, after the latter, a couple of pitting spots on the bevel have disappeared too.

Today got a veeery close shave, followed by a very nice post shave.


NOTE: first image is a bit different as because later I found a better reference point for the position under the microscope.

As you can see an edge does not get very straight until after about 8k synthetic, but a nice base. A Jnat with a Tsushima can make a fairly large jump, even from a 1k, with a bit of work from a couple sets of circles.

Yes, the Suita tomo is probably your finest tomo and is aggressive, based on how much steel it removed, (note the pitting in the middle of the blade, pre and post Suita). A good match for that base stone.

That is an old ERN, based on the tail and should be some good steel, though is does have some pitting, nothing you can’t work around. You will know after a few shaves and stropping if the steel can support the new edge.

Hi Euclid,

Yep. the Ozuku seems a quite nice stone (I'll make a comparative Nagura Test after the one with Nakayama) and seems to work well with the Ozuku Suita Tomo. I'm not worried about the pitting, as it's quite far from the edge and have got shaves with a worst situation.

As I think maybe You missed my previous post, may I ask what do You think about the latest test with Nakayama + Kiita Tomo? I was very happy with the results, even if it's not the finest one.

Yes, the Kita bevel and edge look very nice and the edge straight.

From the photos the Kita and the Suita look to be the best performers.

You will most probably need to do a shave test between those two.

Yesterday I made another test with a different Tomo. This time I used a Shobudani after the Black Tsushima Nagura on my Nakayama.

The microscope showed a less fine Kasumi finish than some other Tomo's and some random stria. The edge however seemed straight enough. The usual "reference point", a chip on the edge, has been almost completely eliminated by the repeated nagura's slurry rounds made during the seven tests carried out to date.

Today I tested the razor on shave and went quite well: close as the previous ones, smooth and with a good post-shave.

Next two tests will be made with a Diamond "nagura" and with "Water only", to better evaluate the intrinsic charateristics of the base stone.



Update after the Seventh round:


1) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Nakayama (1) Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

2) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Asagi Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

3) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Ozuku Suita = Shave Test OK

4) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Nakayama Kiita = Shave Test OK

5) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Red Ohira = Shave Test OK

6) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Kiita Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

7) Nakayama kiita koppa + Tsushima Black Nagura + Shobudani Tomo Nagura = Shave Test OK

That has been my experience with Shobudani Asagi, is pretty much what you experienced. While I have only tested a few base stones, all produced scratchy bevels with random stria that go all the way to the edge. As a result, edges are not as straight as other Jnats or tomo. The Tsushima edge looks straighter or at least similar.

Folks rave about their Shobudani Asagi stones and the finishes they produce, and I am sure as with most natural stones, that performance can vary.

It is interesting that of all the Tomo you have tested that this is the only one to produce such a finish. I would have thought more would have produced similar bevels and edges, but all your tomo are very similar in performance with just a few that are a bit finer/better looking that the lot. Interesting.

Euclid,

As I said I'll do a couple of tests without Naguras, but from what you've seen until now, the similar performances of the tomos can be due to te characteristic of the base stone? How would you rate that stone? How far is from the most performing ones (among the Jnats finishers)?

“The similar performances of the tomos can be due to the characteristic of the base stone? How would you rate that stone? How far is from the most performing ones (among the Jnats finishers)?


That is hard to say because as you see the tomo can make a big difference. If the tomo is harder than the base stone you may be raising more slurry from the base stone, but if the tomo has other minerals or impurities, it can cause scratching.

Similarly, if the tomo is soft, more of the slurry may come from the tomo. All that can change with a different base stone.

The best way to test a base stone is to set a bevel to 1k, then make a pure diamond slurry with the base stone. See how long it takes to remove all the 1k stria.

Also, how long it takes to make a slurry will tell you how hard your stone is.

Then thin and work the slurry to get the finest Kazumi finish on the bevel and straightest edge. This will tell you a lot about the stone’s potential and which tomos in you stable can pump it up in aggression and finishing.

So, a diamond slurry from 1k will tell you. It will also allow you to rate your base stones.

Because there are so many variables it is hard for me to make a comparison based on a photo. What counts is how it shaves for you, with your razor, your stones and your technique.

As you progress even further, everything will remain the same, razor, stone, tomo only your technique will improve. You may even find that some stones or tomo that do not perform well now, a year from now may give you different results.