Thread: HHT off the Coticule

So I got my coticule in the mail today from Jfala! Couldn't be happier! The stone is gorgeous, a nice sqareish bout.

Of course I sharpened a few razors with it, and got some great edges off the stone. I did notice however, that while they would wipe arm hairs off easily, they didn't pass the HHT like some of my other razors, even after heavy stropping. Should I give these blades more strokes on the coticule, or is this rather normal? I've read that sometimes edges off the coticule don't take to the HHT like off the Norton.

No shave tests yet, so I can't be sure about anything yet.


Cheers,
Landis

Landis,

You're right--sometimes the coticule edges work well on the HHT, at others they don't. I'm getting better results as time goes on and I develop my touch with this particular beast. Sometimes you get amazing results, like the Goldedges I've done, and other razors split and peel the hair as if they're pretty dull. It doesn't seem to correlate very well with the shave test either way, so I'm mainly using the HHT out of occasional curiousity.

Oh, and an edge from the coticule with a slurry will pass better but shave worse for me. I like the edge I get from using plain water only.

Just my 2 cents,
Josh

I have several razors that were honed by honemeisters and not one of em pass the hanging hair test but they all shave well. This leads me to believe that it isn't such a reliable test!

Originally Posted by Loochie

I have several razors that were honed by honemeisters and not one of em pass the hanging hair test but they all shave well.

Well then I must be a honemeister of grand proportions - I never seem to get a reliable HHT!
However, my blades do seem quite sharp and provide a close shave. BTW I have been using only a Barber Hone and .5 and .25micr Diamond Pasted strops. I'm picking up a Norton Waterstone Kit at Rockler tomorrow - on special now - Flattening stone, 200/1000 & 4000/8000 for $99. Seemed reasonable.

The HHT tells you that your razor is sharp. No dull razor passes it.

But it does not tell you that your sharp edge is a smooth edge, and you need a smooth edge for a nice shave.

What's more, failing it does not tell you that you've got a dull edge. Weirdly, a very sharp but smooth (non-toothy) edge can fail it. Enter the coticule edge. Someone with better science can say why this is so.

The HHT is just one ballpark indication among several. Between my wife and me we've got a lot of variation in the hanging hairs around this house, and I personally find the thumbpad test and a modified version of the armhair test (holding the razor very gently, very slowly, against one arm hair, a centimeter away from the skin, to see if it pops without pressure or leverage) more helpful. But you'll often hear from guys here that the only real test is the shave test, and they're right.

I have most of the popular hones and find the coticule is all around the best. You can get some fantastic edges that shave like a dream and last a long time. I usually use arm hair shaving to tell when its getting there but I find with most razors I can tell by the sound and feel when its shave ready. I don't fuss with the other tests. Shaving is the ultimate test.

Originally Posted by dylandog

The HHT tells you that your razor is sharp. No dull razor passes it.

But it does not tell you that your sharp edge is a smooth edge, and you need a smooth edge for a nice shave.

What's more, failing it does not tell you that you've got a dull edge. Weirdly, a very sharp but smooth (non-toothy) edge can fail it. Enter the coticule edge. Someone with better science can say why this is so.

The HHT is just one ballpark indication among several. Between my wife and me we've got a lot of variation in the hanging hairs around this house, and I personally find the thumbpad test and a modified version of the armhair test (holding the razor very gently, very slowly, against one arm hair, a centimeter away from the skin, to see if it pops without pressure or leverage) more helpful. But you'll often hear from guys here that the only real test is the shave test, and they're right.

I believe it is because, just like we use knives with serated blades to cut through bread, the fine teeth act like a hacksaw through the hair.
The microscopic teeth are so close together that when we push downward on the HHT, we aren't pushing in an exact 90 degree angle and therefor are creating this hacksaw movement on the hairs.

Often burr left on an edge can make it fail the HHT. Best to run the blade through cork prior to honing to get the best results.

Just my scientifically minded opinion of course.

Graham.

The modified armhair test, as Dylandog put it, is far more reliable. In fact, if you wave your razor a centimeter away from your arm over your armhair and you hear a quiet raspy sound and the razor effortlessly pops (catches and cuts) all the hair in its path, it is almost certain to be shaving sharp. It may not be smooth enough, but is usually within 2-3 more strokes to being properly honed.

You have to pay attention to the quality of the cut though - a lot of razors will catch the hair - including grossly overhoned ones, and even ones honed on a 2K stone. It is the quality of how they cut the hair after the catch that is an indication of shaving sharpness. A properly honed razor will cut the hair effortlessly, without bending the hair, without splitting it lengthwise, without pulling the follicle and without much noise, just a quiet pop.

Shave with the blade and see what you get. The HHT is so subjective as to be relevant only when comparing blades with your own hair from the same section of your scalp.

Originally Posted by Howard

Shave with the blade and see what you get. The HHT is so subjective as to be relevant only when comparing blades with your own hair from the same section of your scalp.

This really sums up the limitations of HHT in my experience. I have fine hair and was always frustrated by failure of HHT (my wife's hair is ultra curly so also fails, and the cats won't stay still long enough). Then I found that a friend's hair would pop like mad on the same blade. And I could even get a little success (snagging hairs on the blade) with hair from the top of my head (compared to front and back).

I now only ever use SHT (snagging hair test) as an indication that I might be nearing sharpness. Ultimately I only know for sure when I shave with the blade.