Thread: Norton roughness, chips, edge shredding, micro chipping

Randy,

Thanks for the feedback.

I've probably used hundreds of gallons of fresh clean water in assessing the Norton stone. I use a cutting board over the kitchen sink to provide a steady stream of clean fresh H2O when lapping, honing, cleaning, etc.... when I say rinsing with copious amounts of water - I mean rinsing with copious amounts of water.

Keep it coming.




PS: To all: If you are reading this and you have not voted at the top of this page - please do so!




.

Hi Guys,

I'm on either my 7th or 8th Norton 4K/8K Combo and continue to use one daily. I have honed thousands of razors on them. I eventually wear them out with no 4K side left. I have used sandpaper, pumice stones, the Norton flattening stone and the Shapton Diamond flattening stone on them to clean and lap.

One thing I have noticed on the newer stones is that I need to lap a bit further down on them to remove the courser feeling and get the smoother feeling 4K side. Never had any problems with the 8K side other than metal build up, but I lap after every one or two sessions.

Have fun,

Lynn

I have a Norton 220/1k, 4k/8k and the Norton Lapping stone.. I guess I'm just lucky, but I have had absolutly no problems with grit, after lapping, I just wipe the stones with my hand, under running water, and BAM on to honing... Like Lynn I lap every session but I definatly do not have as many sessions as he does I average 5 razors between lapping, and maybe I'm wearing out the stone early, I don't know only time will tell.....

Originally Posted by adjustme69

Hi Guys,

I'm on either my 7th or 8th Norton 4K/8K Combo and continue to use one daily. I have honed thousands of razors on them. I eventually wear them out with no 4K side left.

Hey Lynn,

In that case, would it make sense for you to stop using the combo stones and just get a 4k, or is the straight 4k different from the 4k side of the combo?

-Bill

Lynn and gssixgun,

Thanks for the feedback fellas.

Sounds like you two are part of the ~68% (as of this moment) that got the good Norton stones. I happen to belong to the other 32% of consumers surveyed. Did you fellas remember to vote in the poll at the top of the page?


Just to clarify: the grit sensation experienced with the Norton embedded grit problem is relatively quite distinct, and crisp, and abrupt, and violent... when it happens there is no mistaking it ...SLAM into grit!!! It is especially evident when the edge is viewed under magnification - EXTREME damage. The stone may have only a single piece of grit or it may have many dozens. It is not, and is in no way mistakable for (at least with magnification) any type of 'courser' layer of the stone that lapping might resolve. These pieces of grit cause catastrophic edge damage that is not visible to the naked eye. A 10x loupe will just barely detect the chips and edge damage. It's sad really, because when it's working, the Norton works extremely good - superlative in fact.

It is indeed possible to 'shave' with a razor after honing with a defective Norton, it's just that you will suffer a most grievous and heinous shave ...I promise.



***** Please vote in poll at the top of page ******



.

I just bought the 4k/8k combo about two
weeks ago and have had no problems with
it after lapping with the Norton flattening stone.
I'm happy with it and I did vote in the poll.

John

Originally Posted by piervinc

Hey Lynn,

In that case, would it make sense for you to stop using the combo stones and just get a 4k, or is the straight 4k different from the 4k side of the combo?

-Bill

Convenience when I'm honing. Don't have to get up and get the other stone.....

Lynn

Originally Posted by Forzato

Lynn and gssixgun,

Thanks for the feedback fellas.

Sounds like you two are part of the ~68% (as of this moment) that got the good Norton stones. I happen to belong to the other 32% of consumers surveyed. Did you fellas remember to vote in the poll at the top of the page?


Just to clarify: the grit sensation experienced with the Norton embedded grit problem is relatively quite distinct, and crisp, and abrupt, and violent... when it happens there is no mistaking it ...SLAM into grit!!! It is especially evident when the edge is viewed under magnification - EXTREME damage. The stone may have only a single piece of grit or it may have many dozens. It is not, and is in no way mistakable for (at least with magnification) any type of 'courser' layer of the stone that lapping might resolve. These pieces of grit cause catastrophic edge damage that is not visible to the naked eye. A 10x loupe will just barely detect the chips and edge damage. It's sad really, because when it's working, the Norton works extremely good - superlative in fact.

It is indeed possible to 'shave' with a razor after honing with a defective Norton, it's just that you will suffer a most grievous and heinous shave ...I promise.



***** Please vote in poll at the top of page ******



.

Is there a quest in here somewhere...........



Lynn

Lynn,

Indeed there is an important quest here. As our fearless founder I'm sure you'd agree.

This quest is especially important because the Norton 4k/8k is generally looked upon as the benchmark stone for razor honing. So upon using the Norton if 1 in 4 newbies gets frustrated and quits straight razors because of the Norton stone... well that's not we want is it?

The quest is two-fold:

1) to determine the odds of getting a properly working Norton waterstone so that (especially the newbie) can make an intelligent purchase decision

2) if the defective % is significant (which it seems to be thus far at 25%) then Norton will be advised so that perhaps they can fix the problem

Make sense?

Thanks again for all the feedback.





* * * TO ALL: PLEASE VOTE IN POLL ABOVE * * *






.

Forzato, the title of your thread attracts comment from members who have had such problems. No poll's methodology is perfect, but this one's really whacked if it's leading you to conclude that 25% of Norton hones – the standard around here – are, when used properly, shredding and chipping edges.

Also there's the question of severity. What a lot of people including me have experienced is a bit of grit from dirty water or cheap sandpaper or whatever getting embedded, a problem they've identified and resolved by using scotch brite pads, quality sandpaper (or a lapping stone/DMT), and lots of water. Really taking care to properly chamfer the edges of the stone. Yes, grit seems to more easily embed itself in a Norton than in say a coticule. But once diagnosed the problem is very easily solved.

I'm not going to fill out your survey with this, though, because then you'll be saying fully 1/3 of Nortons are shredding edges.

Your Norton sounds very unusual in the severity of its problem. From what I can tell only Josh experienced this, and his defective hone was replaced no questions asked. You should consider doing the same. If you're not quite sure if yours is really defective or if you might be overlooking something, you might consider sending it to a honemeister for an evaluation.