Thread: I'm officially stumped

Originally Posted by Russel Baldridge

If I were you I would try as many methods as possible.

Should I take this to mean that I should attempt standing on my head to hone?

Thanks for the help guys. I'll try out a few more things and report back.

Does the razor pass the HHT off the 1200 (I'm not sure it's possible off the 1200 grit, I'm just asking)? I've been using a Shapton 2000 grit stone for setting bevels and I use the marker test first, then a combination of the TPT and the edge passing HHT off the 2000 grit stone. Prior to this, I didn't even think an edge COULD pass an HHT off that coarse of a grit but it can and does for me when I feel the bevel is set.

I agree on stropping. I grabbed an old Joseph Allen & Sons that was so dull, I'd probably have to press the edge into my hand with some pressue to cut. I wanted to practice with my hanging strop on a razor that would have little chance to nick it. I've been using a paddle strop and consider myself to still be very inexperienced in stropping with a hanging strop. Anyway, 100 practice passes and although the edge isn't close to keen, I was VERY surprised how much sharper the edge of that very dull razor was!

RE: the slurry on the yellow; I've had bad experience with slurry on the yellow coticule. So much so, that my "cotigura" has sat gathering dust on a shelf for months and months and I doubt I'll use it again. The only reason I haven't posted a "free to a good home" post to get rid of it is that it may slightly increase the value of my yellow should I ever choose to sell it. I found that slurry on the yellow significantly changed the edge in a negative way for me compared to plain water (nice edges there). In contrast, I DO like the Belgian Blue slurry stone I've been using on my Blue stone, but that makes sense to me since the blue IMO is a cutter and the yellow a polisher. The blue slurry seems to enhance the cutting action.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

Should I take this to mean that I should attempt standing on my head to hone?

Yes.






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The other thing I would ask is are you looking at your edge under magnification.

That can sometimes show you where your mistake is being made.

Also from what i've been reading I would say leave out the swatty, and try your coticule without the slurry, and see where that gets you.
several members have reported bad results from the yellow coticule with slurry, but excellent results when honing with just water.

I would normally suggest going back to the coarse hone and work on the bevel until it passes the Thumb Nail Test. This assumes that you do not have a microscope.

However. In this case I would suggest trying the stropping first simply because it is less work than starting over from scratch.

Just my two cents,

I stropped the Holler 100 times again this AM and shaved with it.

Very smooth, nice shave, though not hugely better than the last time. It seems like I probably nailed the edge yesterday, and today it was only minimal improvement.

I checked the edge under the microscope and it looks smooth, though there are some minor defects visible at 100X. I might try a barber hone to improve the edge some more and another stropping session.

minor defects at one hundred magification is a good thing!

Originally Posted by toolarts

I stropped the Holler 100 times again this AM and shaved with it.

Very smooth, nice shave, though not hugely better than the last time. It seems like I probably nailed the edge yesterday, and today it was only minimal improvement.

I checked the edge under the microscope and it looks smooth, though there are some minor defects visible at 100X. I might try a barber hone to improve the edge some more and another stropping session.

After you posted your first findings, I couldn't wait to strop the heck out of the razor I'm currently using most every day (4/8 silver steel round point Korte brand Solingen with slick black scales). I stropped 100 times (normally do 25-30) on a paddle strop with plain unadulterated Hand American honing leather and didn't like what it did to the edge. It seemed to make the edge less resilient and also made it feel like what a wire edge feels like when shaving. . That doesn't mean I'll not use your idea more in the future on different razors to try it, but it didn't improve my edge today.

Chris L

Yeah, I never got a decent edge from a plain leather paddle strop.

I use a Red Imp hanging strop because I can move a lot faster and use pressure.
I recently got a nice Russian Treatment strop that is also giving me nice results, but I had to literally soak it in neats foot oil for a while before it loosened up. It had been in someone's attic for about 75 years!

The squared edge on a paddle really slows me down, plus the short length.

I like a pasted paddle for some razors, they really seem to need that last little bit of polish at .5 or .25, but my final treatment is always a nice wide hanging leather strop.

I want to try pasting a hanging strop again, but I do like this 4 sided paddle I got from the Well Shaved Gentleman.

Originally Posted by toolarts

I gotta say, take with a grain of salt anything you read here--and don't ignore your strop. It might be your problem.

I have an old Holler "Tower Brand" wedge that I worked on off and on for a month with poor results. It has a slightly warped blade so getting an edge in the center was a challenge.

I had honed and stropped and tried shaving with it at least 20 times, nothing but irritation and no cutting of beard or mustache hairs. Forget going ATG.

So, I got frustrated. What the hell. It isn't shaving, I might as well have fun.

I did 200 hard fast strokes on my Red Imp hanging strop. This is the daily strop not a pasted one.

Went back and tried a shave.

MUCH better. Suddenly it cuts chin and mustache hairs. Not the best razor I have but not bad.

Next day, stropped it 100 times and tried again.

EVEN better. Yep, it is improving with just plain leather stropping. Now I can shave without irritation ATG. Still a little rough though.

Next day, Stropped it 100 times and tried again.

WOW!!!!!!!!!! Wiping the whiskers off. Incredible close shave even WTG. AGT under chin and on neck and no irritation at all.

Can't wait till tomorrow. This is my new favorite.

The advice from most people is only the weight of the razor on the strop. Well, I disagree.

Others say only 30 strokes.

Again, it depends. Probably once the razor is shaving, 30 is enough, but I have found that the razor keeps improving for the first 300 strokes or so right after it has been honed.

You gotta learn your strop. It needs to be very smooth and well conditioned, and then you need to practice until you can tell the difference between DRAW and just scraping. DRAW is a nice feeling that happens when the entire bevel is making contact with the leather. Practice slow, but use a little force.

You can strop all day with the "weight of the razor" and get nowhere if you aren't achieving a good draw.

Finally, it just takes lots of practice, because you *might* be rolling the edge with improper stropping technique and not knowing. Someone would have to watch you to be able to see it. It took me 4 months of practice to get to the point where I *understand* my strop.

Hope this helps. Unlikely that it will but at least you have another data point.

+1.

Usually, my blades continue to feel sharper (and shave smoother) with each consecutive day of stropping/shaving. The no pressure mantra is more of a guideline (created here, btw) to prevent people from dragging the edges into their strops and rolling them. I use a little pressure at first when stropping, but *always* keep the strop tight. Some of the barber manuals (check the links section) even recommend an even pressure on the strop at first without lifting the spine.
Basically, if it works for you, go for it, and don't use enough pressure to *force* anything, and you should be pretty much ok.


John P.