Thread: I'm officially stumped

After putting in some good time with the hones an an American Barber spike, I am almost to the point of tossing it all out the window.

I set what seems to be a really good bevel on it with my 1200 DMT. I spent considerable time on the blue until the 1200 grit striations were worked out, then hit the coticule with a slurry. The edge appears uniform under the scope and looks to be nice and polished. I did about 10 strokes on the Swaty for good measure, then stropped for a while. The outcome? It pulls like a mofo...

Besides that, I can't even approach setting a bevel on the Wapi, I've got an e-Bay special that I'm having trouble with, and my go-to razor's bevel is proving difficult to set.

I honestly don't know where I'm going wrong and it's driving me insane! Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!!!

It's hard to say where to start, if it's pulling then you probably have the bevel, It could be your hones, or it could be too much pressure.
Wapis can come in great shape, or severely warped, if your wapi is warped you will have a very hard time.

I'm really not familiar with the hones you are using, so I can't comment on their grit, or performance.
have you tried a pasted strop to finalize the edge?

I don't like the edge off of an 8K, a 12K hone is better, but still not what i like, I have to use several pastes to get my razors in the zone.

There's nothing shameful about sending razors out to a pro... We've all done it, and i'll still do it on occasion just so I can compare their work to my own.

Did it pass the thumbnail test before you switchd to the blue?

And did you finish on the coticule without water? Coticule slurry is very abrasive, and if you use pressure, your edge will be eaten away rapidly.
When I finish on the coticule (first with, then without slurry) I only use the weight of the razor.

In addition to all the above I'd say very likely your strokes aren't getting to the edge of the bevel the way you think they are. I would do 10 passes on the barber hone and check out the bevel under a microscope. Likely your not even reaching the edge of the bevel yet. You probably already know this but for the benefit of the reader you'd see a two tone bevel at that point.

Also take the time to study the spine and remember that when most people test shave they are only testing a specific area of the razor. Your spine may be off-set somehow, uneven etc.

Finally, I don't use it, but you might consider the magic marker bevel test.

Anyway after you see all this, if its true, just attack it with a low grit for a bit longer. Then continue your progression.

BTW, the Advanced honing section was created just for these types of questions. I say that only so that you realize that what your trying to do is really a difficult part of honing. Don't get frustrated, just examine whats going on with the spine/bevel geometry (remember its just a big triangle) and keep going. You wouldn't typically have these problems with a pre-honed razor.

Wow, I figured this was a basic honing problem. I thought you actually had to have a passable razor before you could be termed advanced

Bruno, I did not finish on the coticule dry. Perhaps this is part of my problem.

It passes the magic marker test, which is why I'm using this razor as my first honer anyway. It has a good, even bevel that's workable. When I get home I'll check out the bevel with the scope and see about the two tone bevel.

I know there was a thread with this in it already, but I can't seem to find it. What is the edge supposed to look like under the scope after the coticule or pasted strop? For that matter, how about after the Swaty?

Mike, I do indeed have a pasted and might try it. I've tried it before but wasn't too thrilled at the results, but I'll give it another go. I'm sure one of these will end up making it out to a pro. It'll be a while before I've got something I will let near my face.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

Bruno, I did not finish on the coticule dry. Perhaps this is part of my problem.

Not Dry

But use only water and no slurry. That leaves a much better finish after using the coticule with slurry.

Originally Posted by Bruno

And did you finish on the coticule without water?

Sorry, I took that to mean finish using without water and slurry. I thought it sounded odd, but at this point, I'd stand on my head if it let me get my razors sharp

I gotta say, take with a grain of salt anything you read here--and don't ignore your strop. It might be your problem.

I have an old Holler "Tower Brand" wedge that I worked on off and on for a month with poor results. It has a slightly warped blade so getting an edge in the center was a challenge.

I had honed and stropped and tried shaving with it at least 20 times, nothing but irritation and no cutting of beard or mustache hairs. Forget going ATG.

So, I got frustrated. What the hell. It isn't shaving, I might as well have fun.

I did 200 hard fast strokes on my Red Imp hanging strop. This is the daily strop not a pasted one.

Went back and tried a shave.

MUCH better. Suddenly it cuts chin and mustache hairs. Not the best razor I have but not bad.

Next day, stropped it 100 times and tried again.

EVEN better. Yep, it is improving with just plain leather stropping. Now I can shave without irritation ATG. Still a little rough though.

Next day, Stropped it 100 times and tried again.

WOW!!!!!!!!!! Wiping the whiskers off. Incredible close shave even WTG. AGT under chin and on neck and no irritation at all.

Can't wait till tomorrow. This is my new favorite.

The advice from most people is only the weight of the razor on the strop. Well, I disagree.

Others say only 30 strokes.

Again, it depends. Probably once the razor is shaving, 30 is enough, but I have found that the razor keeps improving for the first 300 strokes or so right after it has been honed.

You gotta learn your strop. It needs to be very smooth and well conditioned, and then you need to practice until you can tell the difference between DRAW and just scraping. DRAW is a nice feeling that happens when the entire bevel is making contact with the leather. Practice slow, but use a little force.

You can strop all day with the "weight of the razor" and get nowhere if you aren't achieving a good draw.

Finally, it just takes lots of practice, because you *might* be rolling the edge with improper stropping technique and not knowing. Someone would have to watch you to be able to see it. It took me 4 months of practice to get to the point where I *understand* my strop.

Hope this helps. Unlikely that it will but at least you have another data point.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

I'd stand on my head if it let me get my razors sharp

If I were you I would try as many methods as possible. Read about the way various people hone their own razors and start playing around with techniques. You never know what is going to work for you so don't adhere too strictly to any one persons method. This will take a while, so in the meantime send one to a pro.

Try and keep in mind that the advice we try and give here is general recommendations that are more or less classical techniques that have been used successfully for many many years by an awful lot of people. Certainly there are some people who seemingly do everything the direct opposite and have great success. My advice initially is to learn to do it the classic way and once you have some experience under your belt then you can strike off on your own and experiment and adapt things to your own ways. As they say all roads lead to Rome. As long as the razor gets sharp thats what matters but also remember if you try it some unorthodox way, bad habits are hard to break and if you mess up your edge, well you know who to blame.