Thread: belgium blue

Thanks for that info good explanation but you'd think a 4k would cut quicker than an 8k that is the case with the norton if you need to remove more metal you'd use a lower grit and polish with higher grit. I should get my bbw tomorrow morning i will try it before my yellow and finish with yellow and see what happens.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Thanks for that info good explanation but you'd think a 4k would cut quicker than an 8k that is the case with the norton if you need to remove more metal you'd use a lower grit and polish with higher grit. I should get my bbw tomorrow morning i will try it before my yellow and finish with yellow and see what happens.

You have to understand that there's a difference between 1. removing an amount of metal and 2. creating a sharp edge.

Case 1. : lower grit --> less garnets in 1 square inch surface --> bigger garnets because there are less garnets in the surface (15 to 20 micron for the BBW)

Case 2. : higher grit --> more garnets in 1 square inch surface --> smaller garnets (+/- 5 micron for a Coticule)

So in case 1 you can say that you are removing a lot of metal when honing your knife/razor. But removing a lot of metal isn't the same as creating a sharp edge! Because the garnets are bigger then in case 2 it's difficult to create an edge that's as sharp as in case 2.

In case 2 you can also say that you are removing a lot of metal because you have a lot more garnets (more garnets but smaller garnets) then in case 1. And because you have smaller garnets then in case 1 you can create a much sharper edge then in case 1.

I hope this clears things up for you!
If not, shoot your questions!

-Rob

Originally Posted by Bart

But either way, I'm still no big fan of designating a grit rating for natural Belgian hones. People often start believing that they can interchange the Blue/Yellow with the Norton4K/8K, while they are in fact pretty incomparable.

So true!

But at one point we need to classify them otherwise they are difficult to sell!

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

FWIW, the yellow side has what looks almost like a spider web of purple throughout it's surface so that may account for it's performance.

BBW stones with many of those purple particles in them perform as good as a Coticule. These purple particles contain a lot of garnets (sometimes even up to approx. 12 000 garnets!).

Originally Posted by ArdennesCoticule

BBW stones with many of those purple particles in them perform as good as a Coticule. These purple particles contain a lot of garnets (sometimes even up to approx. 12 000 garnets!).

A stone collector friend of mine says that the vintage coticules of days gone by had more garnets per square inch then the rocks that are harvested today. Would you say this is accurate ? It seems to me that the deposits are thousands of years old regardless of when they are mined. IOW, a coticule mined today is potentially as good as one mined fifty years ago ?

My BIG natural vintage coticule is much more crystaly (sorry I can't think of a better description) than my other coticules. The new ones are more uniform in apearance, but softer and (another stange description) dustier or less glassy than my big 'un. One of them is also a natural combo bout.
m

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

IOW, a coticule mined today is potentially as good as one mined fifty years ago ?

It's not important when the Coticule has been mined, it's important from which vein the Coticule comes.

There are many veins of Coticule in our area (it's also the only area on this planet where you can find Coticule). In our quarry we have 9 different Coticule veins. Each vein has his own qualities (softer/harder, more or less garnets, color, and so on ...).

Our quarry is in use since approx. 1850, so there are vintage stones out there that come from our Coticule veins. There are vintage stones out there both made out of good or bad quality Coticule.

In the old days (before the second world war) there were many Coticule veins extracted (a lot more then the 9 we extract today). So it's logic that you guys find vintage stones which are performing better than our (recent extracted) Coticule, but you will also find vintage stones which are performing badder then our Coticule stones.

Once again: it's all about the type of Coticule vein not when and where the Coticule is mined.
Some veins are more suitable for straight razor use then others. Clients that ask for a stone for straight razor use will always receive a stone from one of those 'straight razor veins'.

Originally Posted by ArdennesCoticule

It's not important when the Coticule has been mined, it's important from which vein the Coticule comes...

Thank you for saying this. It makes me cringe when I hear people talk about "older" coticules being better than "newer" ones...


That's like saying old diamonds are better than newer mined stones.

Originally Posted by joke1176

Thank you for saying this. It makes me cringe when I hear people talk about "older" coticules being better than "newer" ones...


That's like saying old diamonds are better than newer mined stones.

funny thing is though, my kosher bout I just got off Rob, is more like my "vintage" monster coticule than my other pieces of coticule!????????
M

Rob in case two would you recomend after use with bbw finishing with a slight slurry or water on the yellow i have just purchased yellow coti from ardeenes and bbw i'm sure with use i will sus it out but i'm just trying to get all the info ican but your explanation makes sense.

For me personally, if I feel the need to do some honing on the blue, it's blue with slurry until I'm happy and then I move on to the yellow with water only. If the razor doesn't need much work but rather I'm just trying to freshen up an otherwise fine edge, I'll not bother with the blue and go straight to the yellow with water... if it seems to be taking a bit too long, I would raise a slurry on the yellow and continue using the same stone until the edge improved and then rinse the hone and go back to plain water. I would not bother using slurry on both hones if I'm using both on the same razor, so it would be like above, blue w/slurry, then Yellow, no slurry. You can of course experiment with different things yourself... after all, you are the only person in the world with those two exact hones, they might just respond differently than my two.

Christian and yes, I'm aware my name is not Rob, but I like to answer things anyway!