Thread: When did Breadknifing get popular?

Well... you guys are mostly speaking from experience with acquired skills. I can see some advantages to breadknifing for a newbie.

Yes, it's probably going to remove way more material than necessary.
Yes, it's probably going to require orders of magnitude more work.

But... consider a newbie sitting down with his new stones and newly acquired (old) razor in questionable condition.

You don't have the skill to know exactly what's wrong with it.
You don't have the skill to know the extent of the existing damage (or kind of damage).
You don't know what was done to maintain it or repare it previously or if it was done correctly.
You probably aren't using a microscope and may not know what to look for if you are using one.
Could be an uneven edge, chipped edge, double bevel, multiple bevels at different places on the edge, completely too steep of a bevel from someone sharpening it at a 20* angle like a knife, etc.

So you bread knife it. You KNOW that you're starting from scratch. That's a big plus.
If you follow the procedures described everywhere here you know what the result should be and that it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of what you expect. Sure, you're probably going to quickly find that it's going to take 10 times as much work as you expected but at least you have some idea of where you're at.

Let's take the example where the previous ebay seller, who knew nothing about razors, tried sharpening it up like a knife on some really coarse stone or sand paper holding it at a 20* angle. You're going to get this thing and it might feel sort of like it has an edge and you're going to start honing on your 4K Norton. You're going to see shiney effects on the edge and think you're getting somewhere when you're just working (very slowly) on the second bevel. This could be very perplexing for a newbie right?

Besides, don't you think everybody should hone a razor from scratch just ONCE to get an understanding? Once you do that I'd expect you'd have made a quantum leap in being able to evaluate the next one before you start on it.

I have only done it twice: once to fix a frown, and once to get rid of some corrosion 1/16 deep into the edge.

I prefer to just use a coarse hone with pressure, and that works almost as fast as "breadknifing" at removing metal if you use an aggressive hone.

It has to be SERIOUSLY screwed up for me to take the edge and cram it into the hone.

I think as gssixgun said, it's for extreme circumstances. I've done it to one razor, and hated every minute of it. As a matter of fact, that is the one razor I have a lot of problems with getting it sharp, and keeping it sharp.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

I think as gssixgun said, it's for extreme circumstances. I've done it to one razor, and hated every minute of it. As a matter of fact, that is the one razor I have a lot of problems with getting it sharp, and keeping it sharp.

And now you think breadknifing it earlier on is the cause for that razor not performing up to your expectations?
Just wondering.

I think it made it much more difficult to achieve a good edge on, yes. I'm not sure if breadknifing is what I did. The razor had a smiley part, and a frowny part, I guess wavy is the word. I put it edge on to the side of a grinding wheel until the edge was straight. I had a hell of a time getting an edge back on it.

I wouldn't call it a honing technique since you are destroying the edge. I've only used a very few times mostly where the edge has a pronounced undulating edge that would have taken forever to hone out. I think it safe to say its not something that anyone without considerable experience should ever even remotely consider.

However its just another technique in the trick bag to get you where you want to be and like all methods there are several methods for each situation. So if you decide to use this particular method and you not up to the entire task the old saying, "may fortune favor the foolish", applies.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

I think it made it much more difficult to achieve a good edge on, yes. I'm not sure if breadknifing is what I did. The razor had a smiley part, and a frowny part, I guess wavy is the word. I put it edge on to the side of a grinding wheel until the edge was straight. I had a hell of a time getting an edge back on it.

Although it is usually done by honing with the edge down on a hone, I think what you describe qualifies as breadknifing too. Based upon your description of the edge curvature, I think you would have had a hell of a time getting a decent edge anyway. I'm not even sure how such a curve could be corrected without breadknifing.

For absolute clarity, most times I breadknifed an edge after restoring a razor, I only removed the very outer part of the present cutting bevel. I think many objections here are made on emotional grounds. It' s very contra-intuitive to put a razor with the edge perpendicular down on the hone.

And for a final disclaimer to new aspiring honers reading this post: it's not something that has part in a normal honing job. It's not because I defend it as a viable option to solve certain issues, that I think it should be promoted as something to try if everything else fails.
Like Glen said, it's an advanced technique, mainly to deal with issues in blade restauration.

Bart.

I hate the lowering of standards. People have to remember that most often traditional methods became traditional because they worked so well for the vast majoity of people.

Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

I think it made it much more difficult to achieve a good edge on, yes. I'm not sure if breadknifing is what I did. The razor had a smiley part, and a frowny part, I guess wavy is the word. I put it edge on to the side of a grinding wheel until the edge was straight. I had a hell of a time getting an edge back on it.

Ouch. I wonder if that might have effected the temper?

Originally Posted by Quick

Ouch. I wonder if that might have effected the temper?

My thoughts exactly!