Thread: When did Breadknifing get popular?

Originally Posted by English

But I wouldn't tell anybody else how to do it and then I wouldn't have to listen to all these guys telling me how to do my job. And I certainly wouldn't give the technique a title. That's just asking for it.

Keep smiling.

Point well taken....

PS: However if I were to keep all the restoration secrets to myself what would truly be the point of our community here, that is well established in sharing information !!!!

IDK about this one.

As a relative noob I'll throw in my $.02

I first read about "breadknifing" in a post by Glen, and I wish that I had known about it earlier. I had just spent an entire Saturday fixing and establishing the bevels on 2 blades. 1 had a huge chip in it, and the other was wavier than Glen's example in this thread. Over 9 hours on the 1k, and neither one was ready to progress yet.

Had I known about "breadknifing", I would have saved myself at least 5 hours that day.

I now have done it a few times with great results.

Is it something for a total newb to try? nope.
Is it something to try on your 1st restore? nope.

But it is an advanced technique that has it's place in my bag o tricks, and I'm happy to know it's there if I need it.

Glen,

Not that you need the advice, English pretty much summed up what I would do: hone the edge perpendicular (let's avoid "the verb") till straight, then rebuild the bevel, starting on a DMT 325. If I also needed to restore the blade, I would do that first and smooth out the flat on that spine while sanding all the way up before polishing.
Imo, any other attempt to make that blade straight will end in frustration. If you'd attempt to hone on a coarse hone to make it straight again, you'd end up way beyond the point where the blade is smallest now and still have not managed to make it straight. You could also try honing a bit here and honing a bit there, making sure you had tape on that spine to keep it from being ground down unevenly. (Even if the flat is uneven right now, it probably is consistent enough in thickness) That method would be awkward and very difficult to get it straight. In the end the only decent shot to get this thing straight is to grind in the direction of edge with that edge perpendularly touching a coarse hone.

Alan,
thank you for your kind post. I'm sorry if I came across as being irritated. I'm an open minded person. I might get carried away in a discussion, but I will always consider all arguments. It's just that I didn't see any real arguments to invalidate the "breadknifing" technique. That annoyed me a bit, but it wasn't directed to anyone in person.

Tim,
I surely can't claim that it was a traditional technique, nor can you that it wasn't. I can only speculate that a craftsman repairing a blade 100 years ago, probably used a whole arsenal of techniques to tackle the problems as they were presented. Those craftsman are gone nowadays, mavericks like Glen left aside. If a blade needs a new bevel (due to a serious chip or a heavy frown), making it straight (or smiling) before recreating the bevel, is just plain good practice. No one can seriously deny that.
I testified that I also sometimes remove a very small portion of the edge, leaving way over 90% of the bevel intact, to remove weak or overhoned steel at the very tip. Suppose someone honed a razor on pastes, all the way up to .25 diamond compound, and then found the resulting edge harsh and irritating. How does he need to correct that? I would recommend him to drag the edge for two strokes over the side of a Belgian Blue, with no peculiar pressure. And then reestablish a flat bevel (it's convexed from the pastes) My reasons for that advice are in my first post on this thread. Other people would recommend cutting cork, others tell to turn it over the edge on the strop, both options that I don't really like, but that's probably for emotional reasons.

I understand now that your concern is to prevent newbies from getting knee-deep into honing trouble. But I'm telling you, they had it coming. Because they started fumbling without taking the effort of properly informing themselves first. There's nothing we can do about that.
I'm not the kind of person that locks and hides the kitchen knives for his kids. I provide them with information and learn them to respect those knives and what they can do. My razors are sitting in open boxes on top of my desk.

My conclusion and newbie disclaimer:
Breadknifing can remove an entire bevel within a matter of minutes. It can remove the razorsharpness of a blade within seconds. Sometimes it's the only way to salvage a damaged edge. Sometimes it's an option, among others, to tackle problems with weak or corroded steel steel at the very tip of the cutting bevel. It will never solve a thing for someone who doens't know what he's doing.
A sharp edge is never the result of fortuitously doing the right things in the right order, unless one breaks a mirror.

Bart.

I'm not convinced breadknifing is popular

I was always intrigued by the cuts in the end of one of my 100+ year old coticule naturals as seen on the top edge of the stone in the photo below.


"Bread Knifing" as previously stated could describe minor to extreme edge flattening.

I followed in the footsteps of the prior owner/s of this vintage stone on a few razors that had moderate edge chipping/pitting. With only 10-15 back and forth weight of the blade only sawing strokes, under magnification the edges were perfectly even; Just great. Of course appearances can be deceiving since the actual edge was much wider/flatter. All in all, I feel it took the same amount of time to get shaving edges after that initial stage as it would have if I would have started honing out the chips in the "traditional" manner. Just a different way of doing the same thing.

I know some of you guys are talking about much more extreme edge removal than what I described, but I thought this observation might be useful.

Chris L

I have a Swaty three line stone that has alot of bread knifing evidence in it, too.

The main reason for breadknifing is to make sure you have a straight edge
and it's not new. they have been doing it for a long time
Carpenters and Cabinet Makers use that method all the times on their chisels, plane blades and even more on cabinet scrapers.
They even have special jigs to do it.
Having a straight edge is the first step to sharpening these blades and is of upmost importance.
When shaving, a real straight edge is not as important because the skin is pliable and will follow a slight curve.
Not so with wood. With a wavy edge you will see the waves in the finish wood.

Originally Posted by Chris L

I was always intrigued by the cuts in the end of one of my 100+ year old coticule naturals

Aha! It IS a traditional technique.

I have only used this in extreme circumstances and only on blades that require serious reprofiling.
I had a nice W&B that was 8/8 at the toe and 5/8 at the heel, which is fine for a chopper, but this was a holl ground square point and it just wasn't going to hone right. Now it took some time to get it right but 'breadknifing'(this is not a term I like for the process!) really made this blade a great shaver. Now I have a perfectly proportioned 5/8 hollowground blade.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here you go gentlemen a nice older Boker.... In for complete restore....

Now please, let's hear your prognosis, look close because the edge is waving at ya !!!!!

Attachment 17324


Lets see, do I just tell the customer" Gee it sux, the shaving geometry is going to be off, I tossed it out, buy a new one"

Or" Gee I'm sorry it is no longer a nice spike, and the spine looks all worn out, I had to keep honing until it was right"

Come on gentlemen let's get real here, how would you fix that edge??????

BTW just for information, some expert in the past honed it that way.....


PS: The rest of the story, Failure here is not an option, this belongs to one of the gals I work with, it was her Grandfather's, she wants to give it to her husband for Christmas, custom scaled in Tulipwood.....

Here is the after pic of the corrected edge on the Boker