Thread: Stubborn Green Lizard

turns out no frown. I took it to a pasted paddle strop I no longer use and did some 100 laps at 3.0 micron and a bunch at 1.0 miconr and then chrome ox and got a nice shave. So I think the blade is just hard.

I'm glad to here I'm not the only one that eventually goes try paste. I felt like I was cheating a little.

I got a cool little 4/8 wedge with a chip in the toe a few weeks ago. After honing out the chip I went through my normal progression but couldn't get a smooth shave even with several returns to the hone. Tonight I took it through the pastes, 3.0, 1.0, .05 and Cro to see if it gets better. I think I"m having problems with the little blade. Hopefully the paste with help.

Originally Posted by DogHair

I'm glad to here I'm not the only one that eventually goes try paste. I felt like I was cheating a little.

I got a cool little 4/8 wedge with a chip in the toe a few weeks ago. After honing out the chip I went through my normal progression but couldn't get a smooth shave even with several returns to the hone. Tonight I took it through the pastes, 3.0, 1.0, .05 and Cro to see if it gets better. I think I"m having problems with the little blade. Hopefully the paste with help.

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do man. If I have to take it to the concrete on the sidewalk, then I'm goin' there.

Also, if I spent anymore time honing that thing my pregnant wife is going to cut my throat with it.

IMO, I do not believe the 1K shaptons are a good choice of stone for setting bevels! They just don't have the gonads to cut a bevel, especially a hard steel razor as you have. I use the 1K as my 1st stone in the polishing sequence only if in creating the bevel the blade was stubborn and has a lot of deep scratches.

Use a 12K DMT if possible, but anything rather than a 1K Shapton!

Regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by loueedacat

turns out no frown. I took it to a pasted paddle strop I no longer use and did some 100 laps at 3.0 micron and a bunch at 1.0 miconr and then chrome ox and got a nice shave. So I think the blade is just hard.

I don't believe the paddle proves or disproves. I like to use a sorta pressure pyramid on the 1000 to set the bevel. Alternating between light smooth homogenizing stokes and varying degrees of directed rolling pressure with the left hand. Until the entire bevel is set a even as possible. Ending with light balanced finishing strokes.

If you try to use light finishing strokes throughout... well you just can't.

The idea of breadknifing all the way to the finish hone sounds awesome to me. (where to start on that progression depends on whatthe edge looks like)

Typically from there it takes approximately 1 hour for me to work past 8000. About 30 min 1000. 20 min 5000. 10 min 8000

Originally Posted by kevint

I don't believe the paddle proves or disproves. I like to use a sorta pressure pyramid on the 1000 to set the bevel. Alternating between light smooth homogenizing stokes and varying degrees of directed rolling pressure with the left hand. Until the entire bevel is set a even as possible. Ending with light balanced finishing strokes.

If you try to use light finishing strokes throughout... well you just can't.

The idea of breadknifing all the way to the finish hone sounds awesome to me. (where to start on that progression depends on whatthe edge looks like)

Typically from there it takes approximately 1 hour for me to work past 8000. About 30 min 1000. 20 min 5000. 10 min 8000

This is very interesting and helpful. I often spend even longer on each of those stages, particularly when I get to the yellow coticulte at the end, but that's because I think the extra time on just wet coticule matters. I've spent hours at 1k on this lizard, but I didn't do much with heavy pressure.

Could you flush out what you mean by directed rolling pressure? I know what a rolling x stroke is, and understand using pressure with the left hand (good LX Emergency vid on that with a cot), so is driected rolling pressure sort of imporsing a rolling x on a non-smiling blade and there putting lots of pressure on each part of the blade in isolation as you roll it? [and then I can see working in smooth homogenizing strokes to sort of mellow it our after conquering the tough parts in isolation).

Also, what does breadknifing mean? I've always wondered how one hones a bread knife so maybe I can kill two birds here.

Originally Posted by zepplin

IMO, I do not believe the 1K shaptons are a good choice of stone for setting bevels! They just don't have the gonads to cut a bevel, especially a hard steel razor as you have. I use the 1K as my 1st stone in the polishing sequence only if in creating the bevel the blade was stubborn and has a lot of deep scratches.

Use a 12K DMT if possible, but anything rather than a 1K Shapton!

Regards,

Steve

True that the Shapton 1000 cuts way slower compared to the DMT 8E especially on harder steel but that's why there's a Shapton 500 and even a 220. But for me the Shapton 500 does the job perfectly on hard steel.
The DMT 8E cuts tough steel like butter but the reason I dished the DMT8E for the Shaptons are the horrible scratch patterns it leaves and takes a lot more effort to remove compared to the smooth and excellent Shaptons. Also the DMt 8E is prone to micro-chipping certain steel.

Originally Posted by Maximilian

True that the Shapton 1000 cuts way slower compared to the DMT 8E especially on harder steel but that's why there's a Shapton 500 and even a 220. But for me the Shapton 500 does the job perfectly on hard steel.
The DMT 8E cuts tough steel like butter but the reason I dished the DMT8E for the Shaptons are the horrible scratch patterns is leaves and takes a lot more effort to remove compared to the smooth and excellent Shaptons. Also the DMt 8E is prone to micro-chipping certain steel.

The shapton 500 is on my to do list - that's what I figured I needed. I suspect a shapton 4k might help reinforce the 1k too, but I think I just need the heavy artillery of the 500 for this one. I took this lizard to my 325 DMT out of exasperation and I think it even left scratches above the bevel - that thing is a nasy beast.

If I remember right it was Glen up there that came up with the term. Bread knifing is perpendicular on edge grinding/polishing. I especially like to do it when any sanding or dremel polishing is done as I like my tendons intact.

What i wished to convey was the idea of a moving pressure point, that rolls along with the stroke.. When doing an x stroke place three fingers on the spine- then as the edge comes off the stone lift the near finger. 3,2,1.

It's not heavy pressure. Or as I sometimes do slide my left thumb or forefinger along the spine as the stroke is completed, so as to have a rolling pressure point that keeps the razor in firm contact. I have adopted tape as well, as Glen suggests.

It's hard to understand what i'm hearing about the shap1000. You guys must be sharpening HSS, or something

Originally Posted by kevint

If I remember right it was Glen up there that came up with the term. Bread knifing is perpendicular on edge grinding/polishing. I especially like to do it when any sanding or dremel polishing is done as I like my tendons intact.

What i wished to convey was the idea of a moving pressure point, that rolls along with the stroke.. When doing an x stroke place three fingers on the spine- then as the edge comes off the stone lift the near finger. 3,2,1.

It's not heavy pressure. Or as I sometimes do slide my left thumb or forefinger along the spine as the stroke is completed, so as to have a rolling pressure point that keeps the razor in firm contact. I have adopted tape as well, as Glen suggests.

It's hard to understand what i'm hearing about the shap1000. You guys must be sharpening HSS, or something

on the 1k, it's probably that I'm now perfectly competent, but not quite good, at honing. What you described on the rolling x is what I do with smiling blade. Haven't mastered it with non-smiling blades as the whole blade wants to stay in contact the whole time (wherease the smiles don't want to be in contact all at once so the rolling x is the only way to hit everyting in one stroke and the blade works with you as you do the rolling).

But is the breadknifing something you'd only do with a blade that has a frown or a smile resulting from uneven honging (as opposed to a blade built with a smile)? That sounds like a reclamation technique, not an ordinary course honing technique.