Thread: Significant disadvantage of X-pattern or i do it incorrectly ?

The barber manual honing chapter here in the help files addresses this

I've just read this and found it very helpfull. The razor i have is 100 years old. The original box and "User's guide" has been preserved for so many years (the photos weren't taken by me but this is exactly the razor i bought)
Ii honed my razor today again. It reached some extent of sharpness. It passes HHT sometimes. When i hone more, the sharpness doesn't get better. I think my technique is not good enough yet. My hones are made by "Tojiro" (Japan) 4k and 1k.
I compare the sharpness to one of new DE blade. DE always passes HHT and cut every single hair with ease. Maybe i still use too much pressure However i can see it's easier to hone than my other DOVO razor. There is one thing that bothers me - when honing with one hand only it's extremely difficult to keep the blade flat on the hone using very light prssure at the same time. The razor tends to lift up when it is moved along the hone thus i use my second hand to press (very lightly) the razor so that it would not lift up. Is it wrong ?

Originally Posted by Utopian

On a narrow hone, the center of the blade is always in contact with the hone during the entire stroke, while the toe and heel are only in contact briefly.

Not as I do an x-stroke. I start each stroke with only the heel on the hone and end with only the toe on the hone. The center of the blade is only on the hone in the middle of each stroke. Unless I'm mistaken, what I do is the normal x-stroke.

Originally Posted by Utopian

On a narrow hone, the center of the blade is always in contact with the hone during the entire stroke, while the toe and heel are only in contact briefly. This will lead to a frowning blade unless the pressure is altered during the stroke.

Sometimes I wonder if everyone is just doing the x pattern wrong. I essentially pull the razor straight down vertically. I think a lot of people use far too horizontal of an overall pattern.

I suppose you do have a good point though, as usual.

Hopefully though someone does that sort of damage over a significant amount of time.

Many, including myself, actually prefer the narrower hones. My x-stroke ends with maybe 12mm of the toe still on the hone.

Reaching a DE level of sharpness is easier with an 8k to 12k hone. I'm not sure what grit scale the Tojiro 4k is on. Depending on the razor, and operator, paste/newspaper might even be needed.

There's nothing wrong with using two hands to hone. Shift your fingers around on the spine between strokes so the edge doesn't try to develop small "pressure spots". Just use as little pressure as possible to keep the spine and edge on the hone. This gets easier as you practice.

1 thing i know- my strokes are not perfect. If I continuously use the same pattern, the inherent error (however small ) will be multiplied; potentially becoming a prominent feature of the edge.

Each different type of x therefore can create a balance in which the positive and negatives cancel each other to zero. 0 edge dimension

Originally Posted by kekon

Ii honed my razor today again. It reached some extent of sharpness. It passes HHT sometimes. When i hone more, the sharpness doesn't get better. I think my technique is not good enough yet. My hones are made by "Tojiro" (Japan) 4k and 1k.

I would say you need something finer, say 8k or even more. Otherwise you won't be pleased with the results. I would guess that most guys here finish their honing in the 12k to 30K range. I myself finish up at roughly 16k.

Originally Posted by kekon

I compare the sharpness to one of new DE blade. DE always passes HHT and cut every single hair with ease. Maybe i still use too much pressure However i can see it's easier to hone than my other DOVO razor. There is one thing that bothers me - when honing with one hand only it's extremely difficult to keep the blade flat on the hone using very light prssure at the same time. The razor tends to lift up when it is moved along the hone thus i use my second hand to press (very lightly) the razor so that it would not lift up. Is it wrong ?

It is fairly difficult to keep the blade on the hone with only one hand. Remember you can grip the razor like its in a vise if you have to just don't press the blade into the hone.

I consider the second hand to be wrong, some guys do use one but I found it far to easy to put too much pressure on the blade just with the weight of that second hand. In fact the pressure from the second hand could cause the entire problem you are worried about.

Tim, how can you tell if you have put too much pressure?

some pressure is needed especially at 4000, unless you just want to spend time

Originally Posted by kevint

Tim, how can you tell if you have put too much pressure?

some pressure is needed especially at 4000, unless you just want to spend time

If you are using more than the weight of the razor you are using to much pressure for HONING the razor. If I were to set a bevel with a 4000 grit stone I might use a little downforce, that combined with circles would do the job. Generally though if I need to do more than hone the razor I drop down in grit and use...you guessed it the weight of the razor.

I guess we then should agree to disagree. I miss why you emphasize HONING as you did, in the interest of clarity perhaps or did I typo the worn boning

Is it possible to achieve excellent sharpness with 12k hone ? I mean i set the bevel on 1k then honed the razor on 4k and shaved (i don't have 8k ). It was not bad but i felt the razor was not very sharp yet (i felt some pulling at ATG).