Thread: The World's Cheapest 30k Hone

First, I thought Chromium Oxide was 50,000 grit not 30,000.

Second Chromium Oxide has not had a bum rap recently. Everybody agrees that the Chromium Oxide will smooth an edge as well as you could wish.

But it is not the same as a natural hone and it has the disadvantage of reducing the life of the edge.

You can also put the powder or the paste on leather or newspaper. You will get the same result honing a razor as a final polish on these mediums.

The one thing that surprises me looking at the photographs is how clean the hones are. Even using a very light stroke, I have always found that Chromium Oxide takes away a lot of metal and it leaves the hone that tell tale grey colour.

Sometime back I saw a video of the Mastro sharpening a razor using muliple passes on a LONG loom strop with CrO. Lots of passes.

That led me to thinking - does it really matter how you progress through what expensive stones? As long as you have a bevel, could you end up with the same edge after a couple of hundred passes on CrO, as you would progressing through stones, THEN finishing with CrO?

I have also seen Robert (papabull) hitting a burred edge with red paste on a belt, followed by a finer paste, then finishing with multiple passes on 0.25 diamond paste on a loom strop. Same great result.

I'd be curious to hear what folks think.

Ray,

The results off pastes are stunning, no question Sharp and buttery smooth. But the bottom line is it doesn't last for long. Three, four, five shaves and you have to hit the paste again. This in itself isn't a problem but eventually, the bevel rounds and ceases to give a good shave and then you need to go back and set the bevel again.

I used to use paste and loved the shaves. I now finish on an Escher and leather strop. The result for me at least is just as good and the blade will last a month before needing a touch up and years between setting the bevel again.

The difference for me is less ware on the razors edge and a longer time between maintenance work.

It's the point that the guys who use natural hones keep on pushing but don't get listened to. Top end Japanese hones being considered by some to give a smoother edge than an Escher.

My two cents.

Originally Posted by English

First, I thought Chromium Oxide was 50,000 grit not 30,000.

Second Chromium Oxide has not had a bum rap recently. Everybody agrees that the Chromium Oxide will smooth an edge as well as you could wish.

But it is not the same as a natural hone and it has the disadvantage of reducing the life of the edge.

I agree with what you say here, English. Chrome oxide does reduce the durability of the edge. By how much? is a question that yields different answers. My feeling is that this edge-life question has been discussed so much that it's become more an academic than a practical question. I.e. that people are becoming wary of chrome oxide because a "weak edge" sounds really inferior and substandard, rather than because they're actually encountering a problem with edge-life. (5-10 strokes every couple of weeks on chromed linen or on a balsa block like Chris's takes no time at all.) That's all I meant by "bum rap." I appreciate your point, though, and maybe my point was overstated.

Originally Posted by English

The one thing that surprises me looking at the photographs is how clean the hones are. Even using a very light stroke, I have always found that Chromium Oxide takes away a lot of metal and it leaves the hone that tell tale grey colour.

I have a linen strop with chrome oxide on one side and TI paste on the other. The TI side is pretty dark with metal particles, even though I barely ever use it. The chrome oxide side shows very little grey, if any.

I think a very light pasting of chrome oxide does wonders, both for immediate performance and for edge-durability. Ghost of green is what I go for.

I mainly used the diamond pastes after finishing on my Norton 4/8K. I've already learned that plenty of stropping on plain leather is infinitely better than honing or pasting over and over in pursuit of the perfect edge.

I will probably get a Escher or similar at some point, but right now I'm getting so much improvement from working on technique that I should wait for things to settle down before adding a new variable to the mix.

I believe both stone and paste will give you a smooth shaving edge by removing material… each get you there in different ways.
The paste removes material mostly from the bevel very close to the edge; this gives you a somewhat rounded bevel at the edge because the strop or balsa is flexible (balsa less so). The stone on the other hand removes material from the entire bevel; this gives you a straight bevel.

However since the 30K stone does not exist (or I should say, “…not available to most of us”) the paste may be the best solution to get that smooth 30K edge we’ve all been looking for. The way I see it… nothing wrong with it.

But as pointed out many times… this should never be used to get you a shaving edge, the edge should already be “shave ready” on the stones, and the paste used to improve the edge to your taste.

I have never been completely sure why balsa became so popular. I made one because I wanted it to be lightweight as possible, and put leather on it to keep it from breaking in my pack, as well as ward off the wear issues Alan mentioned.

I can truly understand how easy it is to dismiss a super expensive hone when all one wants is a clean shave. But there are any number of simpler methods, and we all have an extra razor or two....try them all.

I think a lot of what happens is subconcious. We each have our own egos and predispostions if you don't want one technique or another to work it probably won't.

Day before yesterdaay I shaved off a 3000 guess nat stone. I got 95% of what i consider a good shave. I am 100% sure that a minute or two spent with some diamond compound would leave an edge just as good as my highest grit hone.

My opinion on pastes is great, use them- but do not assume that anything you do as special honing technique has any bearing on the finished edge. Of course ultralight minimum stroke count works when you finish on diamond paste

Originally Posted by Rajagra

I mainly used the diamond pastes after finishing on my Norton 4/8K. I've already learned that plenty of stropping on plain leather is infinitely better than honing or pasting over and over in pursuit of the perfect edge.

I will probably get a Escher or similar at some point, but right now I'm getting so much improvement from working on technique that I should wait for things to settle down before adding a new variable to the mix.

you have a beard. be serious

Originally Posted by English

First, I thought Chromium Oxide was 50,000 grit not 30,000.

My ChromOx from Handamerican says 0.5 micron 60,000 grit.

cass

It really depends on the grit size measuring system that's being used.
To avoid confusion just use the Micron size as your guide.
All I know is that it gives me an edge that I really like!