Thread: An existential crisis of honing

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Watch the water at the front of the edge and you can see, and feel what is going on.. That bead of water will move from heel to toe evenly if you are using the proper stroke... Keep that bead nice and even and you WILL eventually get a sharp edge...

I've found water movement to be a really good indication on how my stroke where, and when the blade starts to "undercut" the water the razor is sharp. At least that's my experience with water and coticules. This requires the hone to be lapped dead flat.

Okay, on the way home from work I'm gonna get some more sandpaper and lap the hell out of my 1k just to make doubly sure it's in good shape. Then I'm gonna downstroke the razor I'm working on until I get rid of the nasty raggedness that I've got going on. Then I'll hit the 1k and pay a lot of attention to the bead of water, using the edge of the hone if that's what it comes to. With luck I can at least establish the bevel tonight.

Thanks for the advice, all. Hopefully I'll have good news tomorrow.

I've been enjoying the stroke on Howard's new DVD. Can I get it sharper likely can I get a good shave off them oh yeah!

OK, you definitely have a warped blade. Honing on a curved(rounded) surface will definitely take care of this problem. But...the control of the pressure you use is critical and the time required is much more.
To much pressure and you will have microchipping of the edge. This will start to occur at the 2000 grit sandpaper/4K hone stage if your not careful.

An extreme example would be to get some 1000 grit and 2000 grit sandpaper. Sit on a chair, take a broom, rest the handle on your shoulder, lay, not wrap, the 1000 grit sandpaper around the broom handle, pull the sandpaper tight on the handle, The, with tape on the spine of the razor, start honing on the broom stick handle with the sandpaper on it, edge first and gently. This will go very fast so check the edge frequently, like every 25 laps. Watch the wear marks on the sandpaper, adjust it as necessary.
Then switch to the 2000 grit ( equivalent to a 4k stone).

Now round the edge of the Nortons and coticule stones and proceed very lightly.
This will be slow but it will work. You might even skip the 4K.

If you need a short video of this then let me know.

The other method is to have the blade angled back greater that 45 degrees on the hone and use an use a X pattern. When you start have the angle at say, 55-60 degrees and when you finish the stroke the blade should be perpendicular to the hone. Try this first and be sure to watch the water in front of the blade.

Hope this helps,

Originally Posted by randydance062449

The other method is to have the blade angled back greater that 45 degrees on the hone and use an use a X pattern. When you start have the angle at say, 55-60 degrees and when you finish the stroke the blade should be perpendicular to the hone. Try this first and be sure to watch the water in front of the blade.

This is exactly the method I use, in fact I just finished doing one this way...

Well, if Glen and Randy both recommend a technique, you can be damn sure I'll try it out. Now I'm glad that life got in the way last night and prevented my from trying anything until after reading those posts. Two clarifications, if I may be so troublesome:

1) It sounds like you're basically describing the "Swooping X-stroke" pictured here Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki except the blade stops "swooping" at 90 degrees instead of continuing a little bit further like in the diagram.

2) Before trying this, should I still downstroke the razor until the edge is nice and even, albeit extremely dull, under magnification? I'm starting to get the idea that one of my problems is that I'm trying to do things to early. Like, sharpening the edge before the bevel is really set or setting the bevel before I even have a consistent edge.

One thing I noticed with your analogy is this; A warped razor is not like a dome, but like an arch. With a thin enough piece of material, like the edge of your hone when you do a rolling x-stroke, you'll make contact with the entire edge. The best way I heard it described is like this, even though your hone is 2-3 inches wide, try to hone only on about half an inch of the edge as if your hone were actually that narrow.

Originally Posted by JCitron

One thing I noticed with your analogy is this; A warped razor is not like a dome, but like an arch. With a thin enough piece of material, like the edge of your hone when you do a rolling x-stroke, you'll make contact with the entire edge. The best way I heard it described is like this, even though your hone is 2-3 inches wide, try to hone only on about half an inch of the edge as if your hone were actually that narrow.

Nicely worded !!!!

Originally Posted by KingOfMalkier

Well, if Glen and Randy both recommend a technique, you can be damn sure I'll try it out. Now I'm glad that life got in the way last night and prevented my from trying anything until after reading those posts. Two clarifications, if I may be so troublesome:

1) It sounds like you're basically describing the "Swooping X-stroke" pictured here Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki except the blade stops "swooping" at 90 degrees instead of continuing a little bit further like in the diagram.

2) Before trying this, should I still downstroke the razor until the edge is nice and even, albeit extremely dull, under magnification? I'm starting to get the idea that one of my problems is that I'm trying to do things to early. Like, sharpening the edge before the bevel is really set or setting the bevel before I even have a consistent edge.

1. The Swooping X Stroke is a great name for this stroke and, no you do not need to stop at exactly perpendicular. Continue on if it suits the razor and you.
Please realize that only a small portion of the blades edge will be making contact with the hone at any one time. If you watch the water in front of the blade that will tell you if/where the contact is occuring. Warped blades are a PITA so don't expect this to be done quickly.

2. Using this stroke on a 1k or 4k will develop/set the bevel and the 8k will give a shaving edge.

I can not disagree with my knowledgeable forum members, because logically, what they recommend will work.

I can disagree with their advice.

Personally, I would take the warped razor and throw it in the bin. Just remember you are going to have to go through this fiasco every few months because the basic problem is not resolved, the razor is warped.

It should take a couple of minutes to re hone a razor and a few more to strop it. Otherwise, why bother to put up with what are in fact rejects. Bin it and buy a new one. Save yourself a lot of hassle.