Thread: An existential crisis of honing

(Warning, lots of words ahead. )
Honing has become a real stumbling block in my straight razor "career". When I joined this forum (exactly a year ago today, strangely enough) a huge part of the appeal was that I could get a set of equipment (razors, hones, etc.) and never need to buy anything for the rest of my life. I started getting okay at shaving with the straight, and then one day thought to myself "Hey, I think I'd be getter better shaves if this edge was sharper."

A few hours after my hones arrived I had successfully dulled my razor to the point of uselessness. This is hardly that surprising for a first attempt, I suppose, but I just could not get any of a handful of razors near shaving quality. I eventually got frustrated enough to drop back to just using a mach 3, but with real soap and a brush.

I recently decided to give the straight itself another go and find myself in a similar situation. No matter how much I read and then attempt, I can't get anything that I can shave with. Although this is usually a bad sign, I'm starting to wonder if the problem is (entirely) me, but actually is the razors. I don't feel like any of the razors I've tried really sit flat on the stone on both sides of the blade. One side feels like it's making solid, flat contact, but then when I flip over and go back down the hone the contact doesn't feel solid anymore. I can rock slightly onto the toe and the heel. Looking at the edge under magnification seems to confirm that the edge is a bit warped, as parts show smoother scratch patterns as I move up the progression, and other parts stay the same. The magic marker test appears to back this up.

So, after three stupidly large paragraphs, this brings me to my question(s). Are most razors warped to a slight degree like this? Should a properly executed X pattern work if the warping is only slight? Can I/should I fix the warping so that it does sit flat on both sides? (Assuming very slight warping, obviously a blade can be so bad as to be unfixable.)

In case it helps, my setup: 220/1k norton, 4k/8k norton, 6x2 coticule. Lapping done with sandpaper on a shiny granite tile.

I personally feel that if I can't hone my own razors, the benefit of this style of shaving is substantially lessened, so I really want to get past this learning curve. If I just can't figure these razors out, I may send them out to a honemeister. Maybe they could write a quick note about each razor, saying what, if anything, is less than perfect and what techniques can deal with the specific issues.

Hi Josh,

Hmmm. I am just starting out with my own hones. I did not make the mistake of putting my professionally honed razors on anything less than a Norton's 4K since the bevel had already been established (wonderfully by Lynn). I have a relatively NOS Jowika that needs to have the bevel established. I have tried the 4K but that hasn't really worked out very well. What I am likely going to do is send it out to Lynn as well. I'm not sure the expense of a 1K stone is worth it in the long run right now.

I have the following in the way of hones; Norton 4K/8K combo and CrO paste on a Tony Miller paddle strop (gorgeous strop, too). I am thinking of getting a Shapton 16K from Howard at the perfect edge. But I can't rationalize anything smaller grit than the 4K/8K combo that I already own. I've got 5 beautiful razors (4 that already have a great bevel). The only thing I need to do at this point in time is periodically touch these hones to refresh the edge.

Many razors need a rolling x because they don't sit perfectly flat on the hone. Heavydutysg comments in his video that most razors sent to him that users cannot get sharp do not have an adequate bevel set. I don't know how far you are from Howard but I think he is in Mass too. If you could meet up with him or find an experienced honer in your area that would be a big help. I had the good luck to have a forum member honemiester who lived close enough to me to show me how it is done. Made all the difference.

Hi,
It may be that each of your razors has a blade that's a pig to hone, or it may be that it's just taking a while to get the technique down. Bart recently posted this:
Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki
in the wiki & i really did find it helpful. If the blade's aren't true then you may find it helps make progress.
Don't give up! Get one sorted out by a honemiester & use that. Use the time that you've got then to practise on the best one out of the bunch you've got.
The stones you've got are fine.
It may be cheating a bit, i don't know, but a pasted strop may help you out with refining at the end.

Now, can anyone tell me how to make my links say "Look here", or anything else a bit snappier?!

Thanks, Ben. That is a nice little page. I've always been confused about something with the rolling X stroke, though. Assume (for sake of discussion) that a razor makes contact at the heel and the toe only. When honing one side of the edge, the convex side, a rolling motion moves contact from the heel all the way to the toe as different parts of the arc touch the hone. It's like rolling a ball through paint, obviously you'll end up with a stripe of paint all the way around the ball. However, what do I do in the other direction to get the concave side of the edge? Rolling will make the heel touch and then the toe, but I don't see how to get to the middle. To continue my dumb paint analogy, if you had a hollowed out hemisphere (dome) and a bunch of paint on the floor, I don't see any way of getting paint inside the dome.

Is part of the theory behind the X pattern that as you slide off the side of the hone, you can at least count on the toe plus the part of the blade that at the edge hitting?

Originally Posted by KingOfMalkier

However, what do I do in the other direction to get the concave side of the edge? Rolling will make the heel touch and then the toe, but I don't see how to get to the middle. To continue my dumb paint analogy, if you had a hollowed out hemisphere (dome) and a bunch of paint on the floor, I don't see any way of getting paint inside the dome.

Is part of the theory behind the X pattern that as you slide off the side of the hone, you can at least count on the toe plus the part of the blade that at the edge hitting?

This is where narrow hones come in handy. I have run into a couple of edges that were that out of whack and honing on a 1" or 1 1/2" wide hone did the trick in my particular situation.

Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe I'll try the coticule with a real thick slurry. It's the thinnest hone I've got. Randy also suggested (back when I first tried this) rounding the edge of the hone and using that. It's essentially making a very, very thin hone, if I understand correctly. I didn't get much success from it, but perhaps I just wasn't patient enough.

Can't help with the paint problem, but as far as the razor goes, the rolling x is primarily for smiling blades. I guess a lot of it depends on the width of the hone & just how badly out of true they are. Maybe hold some thread along the blade between heel & toe & you should be able to judge. How thick is that coticule? Is there enough of it to turn it on it's side & use the thinner edge? I guess you'd need an inch. If so, it'd need lapping 1st.

The coticule is glued to a slate base, so I don't see any way that I could take advantage of that, unfortunately.

Here is a statement that might help you out...

"Every mm of the razors edge must move across the surface of the hone evenly to create a sharp edge"

It does not matter what technique/stone you have to use to accomplish this, it has to happen...

Watch the water at the front of the edge and you can see, and feel what is going on.. That bead of water will move from heel to toe evenly if you are using the proper stroke... Keep that bead nice and even and you WILL eventually get a sharp edge...

I cannot emphasize enough how important a proper bevel set is to the outcome of the final edge...