Thread: Low grit ??

Is the 1k paper, sandpaper? I am a newbie and tried honing Ebay specials and it takes forever on my Norton. Should I get 1k sandpaper to begin?

Or, a stone that would cut faster than 4000?

Thanks,

david

Originally Posted by gssixgun

It sounds as though you are doing everything right except your doing to much of it to me...
Taking off 1/8 of an inch of metal other than to fix a bad nick/chip is just too much honing...To me I would guess that you are getting an edge and then taking that edge back off there, Lynn has a saying on honing "Less is More" trust that....When you say 4k/8k I am assuming that this is a Norton??? If you are at arm hair sharpness coming off the 1k paper, then really I would go back to the basics and do a Standard pyramid and see what happens drop the 12k out of the equation and add 20 super smooth light 8k laps after the pyramid, strop 50 linen and 100 leather and maybe 20 laps on some .50Cr before the linen/leather and test shave....

So, I tried this method. The blade took an edge, sure. I noticed alot of irritation after my shave. I am attributing this irritation to the sharpness of the blade. The blade was shaving, but it seemed limited. After two passes, I still have stubble and the skin is very sensitive to the touch... and quite red.

I think some laps on the 12k are in order to smooth out the edge.

Honestly, I dont really know what else to try.

I dont think it's my shaving technique. I use the weight of the blade and I'm not pushing or anything.

It's almost as if the edge isnt sharp enough.

Maybe I am expecting too much. Honstly I can get a better shave from a cartridge. I'd like to think the straight razor would give me a better shave, but the longer I go on shaving with a straight ... the less true I am finding this to be. I really think it comes down to the sharpness of the blade... which apparently I am struggling with.

Originally Posted by Whiskers

So, I tried this method. The blade took an edge, sure. I noticed alot of irritation after my shave. I am attributing this irritation to the sharpness of the blade. The blade was shaving, but it seemed limited. After two passes, I still have stubble and the skin is very sensitive to the touch... and quite red.

I think some laps on the 12k are in order to smooth out the edge.

Honestly, I dont really know what else to try.

I dont think it's my shaving technique. I use the weight of the blade and I'm not pushing or anything.

It's almost as if the edge isnt sharp enough.

Maybe I am expecting too much. Honstly I can get a better shave from a cartridge. I'd like to think the straight razor would give me a better shave, but the longer I go on shaving with a straight ... the less true I am finding this to be. I really think it comes down to the sharpness of the blade... which apparently I am struggling with.

Have you ever had a razor honed to shave ready by someone like Lynn or Glen (gssixgun) ? If the only straight you have shaved with is the one that you have honed you don't know what "sharp" is. Get one honed by Lynn or Glen and then you will have something to compare your own efforts to . Keep one or better yet two shave ready by a honemiester and get a few more off of ebay to practice on. Prep and technique are other possible issues but until you get a truly sharp razor those cannot be evaluated.

Originally Posted by davyboy

Is the 1k paper, sandpaper? I am a newbie and tried honing Ebay specials and it takes forever on my Norton. Should I get 1k sandpaper to begin?

Or, a stone that would cut faster than 4000?

Thanks,

david

Norton makes a 1K. That or a DMT D8 extra fine 1,200 continuous plate are good for bevel setting and removing chips. You can set a bevel on a 4K Norton but if it is a rough edge to start with it will take longer. Sandpaper (wet/dry found in auto parts stores) works but may be more expensive in the long run if you are going through a lot of razors.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Have you ever had a razor honed to shave ready by someone like Lynn or Glen (gssixgun) ? If the only straight you have shaved with is the one that you have honed you don't know what "sharp" is. Get one honed by Lynn or Glen and then you will have something to compare your own efforts to . Keep one or better yet two shave ready by a honemiester and get a few more off of ebay to practice on. Prep and technique are other possible issues but until you get a truly sharp razor those cannot be evaluated.

Yeah, I had a razor honed by the venerable Mr. Abrams.

The man ...the myth .. lol.

No offense .. I couldn't resist.

To me, that's my baseline for sharpness. I have a few blades that I self honed that is as sharp as the one I recieved from Lynn. All the others seem to fall into the category that I outlined above.

I dont understand it, really ... It seems that I can only sharpen some blades... and that's weird to me.

I believe you have received good advice so far. It's very difficult to pinpoint from a distance what exactly poses the problem with someone's honing.

It is possible that you fail somewhat on the 4K. The edge of a 1K hone will sever hair rather well. Such an edge carries little teeth that penetrate the shaft of a hair with ease, a bit in the same fashion as a serrated knife cuts tomatoes that much better than a smooth-edged knife of comparable keenness. The problem with shaving is that we want to cut whiskers but at the same time do as little damage as possible to the underlying skin. Hence the edge must be finer than that.
Upon refining your edge on a 4K, the first thing that happens, is that the teeth are honed away, because they reside at the outer limit of the very edge. That explains while the blade will start to appear duller very soon after you start honing on the 4K. But that doesn't mean you are at the maximum keenness level on the 4K.
I also think it's important to remove the 1K sandpaper scratches completely on the 4K before doing anything else.
I don't think Lynn's adage of "less is more" applies to achieving a good bevel. Even if the bevel is sharp enough, having the remains of 1K scratches underneath your 8K & 12K pattern, can get you into trouble. I think "overhoning" is sometimes just that: low level scratches that interfere with a good continuous apex at the finished edge.
The bottom line is: you need an extremely sharp edge off the 4K, that shaves arm hairs with absolute ease. If I understand any of it, it takes only few laps on the 8K (or a pyramid) to add some shaving comfort to that edge.

I think it is important to make the final laps on each hone very light and uniform.

Bart.

Originally Posted by davyboy

Is the 1k paper, sandpaper? I am a newbie and tried honing Ebay specials and it takes forever on my Norton. Should I get 1k sandpaper to begin?

Or, a stone that would cut faster than 4000?

Thanks,

david

While lacking a stone coarser than 4000 I have resorted to using 1200 wet/dry paper. I cut a strip wide enough to cover the length of the blade I was working on and used some water to stick it to a piece of marble.

It sped the process of bevel setting up tremendously. It, however, was a PITA to work with because the edges wanted to curl making the surface uneven. So much for flat. I ended up taping all the edges and using an X pattern of stroke. Sandpaper will work in a pinch, but stones are so much easier to work with.

Originally Posted by Whiskers

...
To me, that's my baseline for sharpness. I have a few blades that I self honed that is as sharp as the one I recieved from Lynn. All the others seem to fall into the category that I outlined above.

I dont understand it, really ... It seems that I can only sharpen some blades... and that's weird to me.

Is there any notable difference (or common denominator) between the razors that you can hone successfully and those you cannot?

Originally Posted by Sticky

Is there any notable difference (or common denominator) between the razors that you can hone successfully and those you cannot?

This is a good question ...

The blades I can properly sharpen seem to be on the hollow ground side of the grind scale.

The one particular blade in question I would estilate having a 1/4 hollow grind. I used tape on the spine because there were some very small chips on the edge that I worked out with 1000 grit paper. I didnt want to wear down the entire blade ... just the edge .. lol .

Also, this particular blade seems to have a small warp. To me, the warp isnt very serious ... but it's there. I dont this warp is playing a part in keeping the edge sharp.

I am going to try to work the 4k stone some more to test the theory of Bart. So far, the pyramid doesn't seem to be working for this razor.

What is odd to me is that this blade is sharp enough to plow through some major stubble. It seems that it isn't sharp enough to cut the stubble for the second (or subsequent) passes. It is almost as if it becomes dull during the first pass.

Back to the 4K for now ...

Originally Posted by Whiskers

What is odd to me is that this blade is sharp enough to plow through some major stubble. It seems that it isn't sharp enough to cut the stubble for the second (or subsequent) passes. It is almost as if it becomes dull during the first pass.

Back to the 4K for now ...

Hmmm....

This will need advice form one of the Norton specialists, but that might be evidence of overhoning. I'm not entirely sure. It might come down to what I said about leaving 1K scratches behind.
Either way. Don't worry too much about it yet. Do the work on the 4K. If you have a means of looking at the edge with magnification, now is the time to use it. Remember to take out all 1K scratches.
Aim for the most even and light pressured strokes. Your best strokes of the entire honing session should be done near the end of your 4K work. Not that you should allow yourself to be sloppy later, but I know how much concentration it asks in the beginning. It's like learning how to write. If you learn how to do it well from the very start, no matter how much that slows you down, you'll be rewarded with a nice handwriting (and honing stroke) for the rest of your life.
For honing razors, it makes all the difference.
Coming off the 4K, the razor should be able to pop a freshly washed hanging hair, held by the root side.
If you're afraid of overhoning, you could do 3 or 4 stropping strokes on the 4K and end with the equal amount of regular strokes. Test again for sharpness. If it checks out, refining and finishing on the 8K should be pretty straight forward. I would test shave after the 8K. You can always go to the 12K later and see what that does for the edge, but it should definitely provide a decent shave after the 8K.

Good luck,
Bart.