Thread: what am I doing wrong??

I have several razors that i let get too dull (the others I have been maintaining with a swaty) so I realized it was time to work on learning honing, and while I have no issues keeping my knives sharp, honing razors is drastically different.

to get the best advice I will list what I have:

Norton 220/1000
norton 4000/8000
chinese 12K
Carborundum Razor hone (its marked for razors)
two line swaty
three line swaty
a counterfeit swaty (marked "the swaty three line hone")
Nagura stone

Jemico russian strop
tony Miller Latigo strop
vintage horsehide strop with cro2 paste on the back

all stones were lapped with either the norton flattening stone or sandpaper on a granite tile

I followed the "conservative pyramid" (4K/8K, I didnt use the 1k becasue the bevels were already set) with very light strokes using two fingers on the blade, then proceeded to 70 laps on the chinese 12K, the razors all passed TPT, but failed the HHT

I then stropped them on the cro2, and then on the horsehide, and they passed the HHT

shaving with them before the cro2 was uncomfotable, after the cr02 was much better, but not as smooth as when I received them "shave ready"

while it may seem I was successful to a degree, I am wanting to get them "shave ready" without using pastes, and am wondering if I should do more on the 8K or the 12 K? or should I have not followed the pyramid?

since I recieved the two line swaty I have been able to maintain all my other razors just fine, so I feel i am screwing up somewhere in the 4k/8k range, any advice is appreciated

Yea, I would finish the blades better on 8-12K, maybe 60 passes and see if that improves them.

agree with above. you can do on 12 k(your blade is almost in there)more or chro2 will take you 200 strokes to get there.

You might experiment with how much water you use on the hone and how often you clean it. I've found the Norton 8k seems to build slurry if you aren't careful so when I'm going for that last little bit of sharpness it's capable of I use it damp rather than real wet and I rinse it off every 10 laps to keep the slurry to a minimum.

Originally Posted by currentman

I have several razors that i let get too dull (the others I have been maintaining with a swaty) so I realized it was time to work on learning honing, and while I have no issues keeping my knives sharp, honing razors is drastically different.

to get the best advice I will list what I have:

Norton 220/1000
norton 4000/8000
chinese 12K
Carborundum Razor hone (its marked for razors)
two line swaty
three line swaty
a counterfeit swaty (marked "the swaty three line hone")
Nagura stone

Jemico russian strop
tony Miller Latigo strop
vintage horsehide strop with cro2 paste on the back

all stones were lapped with either the norton flattening stone or sandpaper on a granite tile

I followed the "conservative pyramid" (4K/8K, I didnt use the 1k becasue the bevels were already set) with very light strokes using two fingers on the blade, then proceeded to 70 laps on the chinese 12K, the razors all passed TPT, but failed the HHT

I then stropped them on the cro2, and then on the horsehide, and they passed the HHT

shaving with them before the cro2 was uncomfotable, after the cr02 was much better, but not as smooth as when I received them "shave ready"

while it may seem I was successful to a degree, I am wanting to get them "shave ready" without using pastes, and am wondering if I should do more on the 8K or the 12 K? or should I have not followed the pyramid?

since I recieved the two line swaty I have been able to maintain all my other razors just fine, so I feel i am screwing up somewhere in the 4k/8k range, any advice is appreciated

You have all the tools.

My guess is that you either over honed (you used the thumb pad check, what about the thumb nail? Thumb nail will tell you if the edge is over honed or perfectly honed), or you under stropped (did you use a thumb pad check after stropping? The thumb pad will tell if stropping has been effective). Or maybe you did both over hone AND under strop?

If you can't rule out your honing and stropping (I suggest you re-evaluate your methods for checking both), then it's difficult to determine if shaving prep and technique are the factors contributing to the uncomfortable shave.

Save the HHT until you have a razor that shaves to your satisfaction. Then try the HHT and see what it does.


Scott

Originally Posted by currentman

...
all stones were lapped with either the norton flattening stone or sandpaper on a granite tile
...
...the razors all passed TPT, but failed the HHT
...
since I recieved the two line swaty I have been able to maintain all my other razors just fine, so I feel i am screwing up somewhere in the 4k/8k range, any advice is appreciated

Did you lap any hones only on the Norton flattening stone (like the 4k/8k)? If so, check them against your sandpaper on granite. The hard Chinese 12k and/or Swaty has been known to put a new profile on the Norton flattening stone.

Your TPT after the 8k, 12k, or Swaty should feel very much like it will on a fresh DE blade.

If the problem is hone technique, it might be that the pressure of your finishing laps needs to be even lighter (it makes a great difference). The Chinese is really slow and sometimes will use around 200 laps.

If you can maintain edges well on a Swaty, then I suspect the other hone(s) must have some slight difference.

I'd recommend one more stone. I know you have a lot of stuff but if you just use the Norton and then finish on a coticule or Shapton 8k or 16k, you'll see a big difference. I don't like the Chinese stones although others here do. I think the quality may be uneven resulting in different experiences. I think it's really important to check the edge under magnification (Radio Shack 60x is fine) before you hone and after about the first 20 strokes. You get to see exactly what you've done or not done.

Originally Posted by honedright

You have all the tools.

My guess is that you either over honed (you used the thumb pad check, what about the thumb nail? Thumb nail will tell you if the edge is over honed or perfectly honed) I didnt use the thumbnail test because from what i read this will dull my edge, I guess i need to go back an re-read about it, or you under stropped before i went to cro2, after honing I stropped 30 on canvas and 60 on latigo(did you use a thumb pad check after stropping? The thumb pad will tell if stropping has been effective) no i didnt, another mistake I made. Or maybe you did both over hone AND under strop?

If you can't rule out your honing and stropping (I suggest you re-evaluate your methods for checking both), then it's difficult to determine if shaving prep and technique are the factors contributing to the uncomfortable shave. my shaves over the last few months have been BBS with no irritation using razors i already had and other shave ready razors I bought through the forum so I suspect my problem is I overhoned

Save the HHT until you have a razor that shaves to your satisfaction. Then try the HHT and see what it does.


Scott

tommorow I am going to try again, if I overhoned, then I should be able to backhone and try again right?

Originally Posted by Sticky

Did you lap any hones only on the Norton flattening stone (like the 4k/8k)? If so, check them against your sandpaper on granite. The hard Chinese 12k and/or Swaty has been known to put a new profile on the Norton flattening stone.

Your TPT after the 8k, 12k, or Swaty should feel very much like it will on a fresh DE blade.

If the problem is hone technique, it might be that the pressure of your finishing laps needs to be even lighter (it makes a great difference). The Chinese is really slow and sometimes will use around 200 laps.

If you can maintain edges well on a Swaty, then I suspect the other hone(s) must have some slight difference.

I only used the flattening stone for the nortons, for the chinese I used the sandpaper and granite

I tried to use no pressure, but I think i need work in this area

I just read your revised version of progressive honing, I really now belive Overhoned, but I will try again tommorow and see how I make out, if I fail again it Wont be for lack of information which all you gentlemen have been kind enough to provide

thanks again guy !!

the swaty I have been using is a two line, and its surface is almost like glass, but 5 or 6 strokes and it really give a nice shave

Originally Posted by currentman

tommorow I am going to try again, if I overhoned, then I should be able to backhone and try again right?

Regarding your comments to my post:

Every barber manual I have read recommends checking the edge of a honed straight razor with a wet thumb nail.

And, maybe you just never learned to use your thumb pad to check the edge after stropping. It's very helpful.

Backhoning is an effective way to remove an overhoned edge. If you are comfortable with the technique, do that, and then rehone.

There is a downloaded barber manual by Thorpe in the "Help" section that will help you with the honing and stropping checks.


Scott