Thread: Stone Size As It Affects Honing Technique

Xman had brought out some interesting points regarding stone size affecting honing performance. Using a small hone, such as a 4 x 2, the X Pattern doesn't really have enough room to be effective. Depending on blade size, you have somewhere around 2 inches of stone length to work with without scratching the blade with either end of the stone at the beginning or end of the stroke. Is it possible that people just used a circular pattern on these small hones, and is it possible to get satisfactory results using this or some other pattern? What is everyone's experience with using small hones, and how did you get them to work well?
With hones it seems, size really does matter!

The size of the hone that will work well for an individual has a lot to do with his preferences, aptitudes and time spent practising. Learning to use a smaller hone well takes a different type of practice and aptitude just as using a larger one takes a different type of practice and aptitude. The X stroke works perfectly fine on shorter and narrower hones for someone who uses these type of hones regularly. (My smallest *touch up* hone is 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" and its one of my favorites). As Tilly once apty remarked: "a hone is only as good as the one who is using it." This applies to the size of hones we use too. Learning how to make your hone a good one, be it wide, narrow, short or long is, more often than not, just a matter of practise and more practise.

Hal

I have a 2" Norton 4k/8k, and my X pattern was too tight when I was trying to fix a ding (same thread Xman posted about stone size).

The technique on page 3 of the 1961 Honing and Stropping really worked well for me.

The basic idea is that you still use the X pattern, but you change pressure so that the middle, which has more contact with the hone, doesn't cut away faster than the point and heel. In fact, the 1961 Honing and Stropping section suggests doing this to maintain a slight outward curve. It can be rather tricky, and I found that I needed to hold the hone to have the right feel.

My blade doesn't yet have a great curve, but this concept got my edge back in the right direction, and will keep me from cutting out the middle with X patterns.

To fashion and maintain the correct "curve" on the cutting edge of a razor:

Lay the razor flat on the hone, making sure that the edge and the hell of the razor are flat on the hone surface. Take four short honing strokes with pressure exerted at the heel of the razor. Shift the position of the razor on the hone so that the edge and the point of the razor are flat on the hone surface. Take four short honing strokes with pressure exerted at the point of the razor. Shift the position of the razor on the hone so that the center portion of the razor lies flat on the hone surface. Take several light strokes with little or no pressure.

Originally Posted by Danist

I have a 2" Norton 4k/8k, and my X pattern was too tight when I was trying to fix a ding (same thread Xman posted about stone size).
The technique on page 3 of the 1961 Honing and Stropping really worked well for me.

[/quote]

Hi Danist,

Glad you got the concept and are on the way to restoring the geometry of your razor. The techniques described in the 1961 manual were offered with smaller barber hones in mind, so your 2" Norton is more than adequate for all your honing needs.

Hal

What is this 1961 Honing and Stopping? A Book, a manual? Where can I find one?
jmsbcknr

Originally Posted by Danist

I have a 2" Norton 4k/8k, and my X pattern was too tight when I was trying to fix a ding (same thread Xman posted about stone size).

The technique on page 3 of the 1961 Honing and Stropping really worked well for me.

The basic idea is that you still use the X pattern, but you change pressure so that the middle, which has more contact with the hone, doesn't cut away faster than the point and heel. In fact, the 1961 Honing and Stropping section suggests doing this to maintain a slight outward curve. It can be rather tricky, and I found that I needed to hold the hone to have the right feel.

My blade doesn't yet have a great curve, but this concept got my edge back in the right direction, and will keep me from cutting out the middle with X patterns.

To fashion and maintain the correct "curve" on the cutting edge of a razor:

Lay the razor flat on the hone, making sure that the edge and the hell of the razor are flat on the hone surface. Take four short honing strokes with pressure exerted at the heel of the razor. Shift the position of the razor on the hone so that the edge and the point of the razor are flat on the hone surface. Take four short honing strokes with pressure exerted at the point of the razor. Shift the position of the razor on the hone so that the center portion of the razor lies flat on the hone surface. Take several light strokes with little or no pressure.

I have a 3" Norton and I don't need to use the X pattern. However I got the 3" because I thought it would be easier to use no necesarily better.

James

You'll find the '61 text along with several other excellent documents in the permanent archives located in the Help Files, specifically in the Barbering Textbooks folder for the '61. The wisest shavers here have allowed us access to so much knowledge it sometimes contradicts itself and begs the asking of questions you didn't know you could ask yesterday.

Like ... what about the direction of honing? I can't find it now, but I seem to recall it being briefly mentioned in a previous post that honing point leading was an option some were exploring. Is this going to keep the "teeth" in line better if stropping is done heel first and will that lead to a keener and/or weaker edge?

X

Is this correct? My understanding is that the x pattern is necessary to hone microscopic teeth on the edge.

So, it seems you need to do something even if the the stone is wide enough to fit the whole length of the blade. Since the x pattern makes cuts that slant forward and downward towards the handle, wouldn't you get the same result as the x pattern by moving the blade straight along the stone but tipping the blade head back towarsd you?

Originally Posted by RichZ

I have a 3" Norton and I don't need to use the X pattern.

I use the X pattern because I feel it gives a better cutting motion on the stone. I also use the 3 inch stone because it is easier for me to keep the razor flat through the entire stroke. Lynn

Originally Posted by adjustme69

I use the X pattern because I feel it gives a better cutting motion on the stone. I also use the 3 inch stone because it is easier for me to keep the razor flat through the entire stroke. Lynn

The X stroke is neither a push nor a pull, but involves both actions at once. As Lynn's apt comments suggest, isn't this "better cutting motion" similar to the cutting motion when shaving? Ergo, what's better on the stone will be better on the face?

Lynn, you say it is easier to keep the blade flat when using a 3" Norton. How do you use your Norton? I know the other "hal", who has strong farmer hands, holds his 3" Norton in his palm. I believe Dave places his on his lap; others put their Nortons on a bench.

Hal