Thread: Can a razor be too sharp?

IMO polishing means to increase the number of points that actually meet.
The lower grits leave scratches that are deeper and hence won't go as far as to the point.

I was thinking a similar thing (to pjrage.) Where scratches form the edge you are going to have a sawtooth or scalloped edge, microscopically of course. As you polish using finer abrasives you are going to even up the edge.

Now the question is, if you are polishing the edge, not sharpening it any further, how can it feel harsher?

Maybe with a rougher edge the parts that project furthest get blunt quickly (maybe even by stropping) and they act as "safety guards"?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Polishing hones do just that, they polish the bevel, now some engineer type is going to argue that you would still be sharpening and technically that would be correct right up until that very, very, fine point of the max sharpness level then you start overhoning (different point for different razors).... Finding how close you can come to that spot on each razor is what defines the term "HONEMIESTER"

Originally Posted by pjrage

I agree with you that a razor edge can only get so sharp. That's where I was going with my light saber comment

IMHO, polishing the bevel is what makes the razor sharp in the first place. The second the two sides of the bevel meet, EVERYTHING you do from that point forward could be considered polishing the bevel. They can meet at VERY low grits. I think, though, that you are defining "polishing the bevel" as starting the second that you have made some portion of the edge as sharp as it's going to be (0.5 micron assuming that number is correct).

So, I'll jump on board with that argument then, that around the 4k level I will assume (I have no proof) that you are starting to get into the realm of "some areas of the edge are as sharp as they will get."

So, think about it like this. At the 4k level, you have two sides of the bevel, both with scratches in them, meeting up to form an edge. As far as I can tell, the scratches in these two edges of the bevel cause the two sides to not meet up as evenly where they meet (the edge). Since each side of the bevel is basically varying in width from having scratches, the very edge is varying in width also. The complete edge would look jaggedy in width (on a microscopic level) if viewed straight on. That is to say, the edge may be 0.5 microns (or whatever the sharpest they can be is) at some points, and, say 2 microns at others. Where the two valleys of the scratches meet perfectly, it might be the perfect 0.5 microns in width, but where two peaks of the scratches meet, it is wider, say 2 microns (just making up that number). Does this make sense? I wish I could draw a picture to describe what I'm saying.

Anyway, as you take these scratches out further and further (polish), the edge becomes more and more consistent in width. Just for the sake of argument I'm going to pull some numbers out of the air, assuming that your 0.5 micron width is the sharpest a razor can get. Anyway, let's say that at the 4k level, the edge varies between 0.5 microns and 2 microns in width. Some points where the scratches on both bevel sides meet perfectly are as sharp as possible (0.5 micron), but where the scratches do not meet perfectly, you have varying edge widths as wide as 2 microns. Now, you move on from the 4k to a finer stone. Now you are removing the 4k scratches with 8k ones which aren't as deep. Now the edge varies in width from the same perfect 0.5 micron to, let's say, 1.5 micron at the spots where the scratches "meet up" the worst. Then you move on to say a 12k stone, and now you are varying between, say, 1 micron and 0.5 micron. Then you go to a 16k and get to 0.8 micron and 0.5 micron. Then you get to say, a 30k hone and now you much closer to a consistent 0.5 microns because the scratches are so thin that you really can be very consistent.

Now, these numbers are completely made up to try to illustrate what I'm thinking, but does that make sense?

If you subscsribe to this making sense, then I would argue that as you polish the edge, you are making it a more consistent width that is closer to as sharp as it can possibly get. When the edge is more consistent and also a smaller width, it will cut better. If it cuts better, I define it as sharper. Therefore, polishing makes it sharper.

Or I could be completely wrong, but it makes sense in my head anyway.

Yep told ya so !!!!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yep told ya so !!!!

ROFL

Wow, quite the variety of responses.

Thanks to all of you for all of the information, and I think I'm getting the picture about sharpness vs. keenness, and I suspect that being too keen might be a small percentage of what I've experienced. Of course to test for sure, I'll have to get the razor touched up by a pro again, and see if I think it's too keen again, or if it's really 100% me and my growing skill.

Again, thank you all.

Originally Posted by zib

Instead of sharp, how about too keen.

Is there an actual difference between keen and sharp, or just a matter of symantecs?

Personaly I see sharp as sharp, now harsh -vs-smooth yes I see a difference....

A razor can be sharp and still feel harsh, that sharp and smooth feeling is the sought after condition....and that is what takes a little more work and expeience....

I have always said "Just about anyone can get a razor sharp, it takes talent to get it smooth too"....

The main thing that lead me to post this originally, was wondering how much of my improved shaving was me, and how much was, for lack of a better term, "breaking in" a razor that had been honed too sharp or over-polished.

Today, I lapped the barber hone I purchased on ebay, and used it to touch up my razor. If anything, I think I used too little pressure, but I went slow and careful, and used very few strokes.

All I can say is that after touching up the razor in question, which I'd been shaving with for 6-8 weeks I think, it shaves even better than before.

So, I think it's safe to say that at least in this case, it's more about skill than being too sharp.

You know, you can go out and buy the best piano in the world but if you don't know how to play it won't do you any good. If you barely know how to play it won't sound too good either. if your a decent player it will probably sound like a beat up second hand unit. However, if your a concert pianist well then you will appreciate the nuances of sound and be able to extract the max from that piano.

You can apply that to honing if you wish.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You know, you can go out and buy the best piano in the world but if you don't know how to play it won't do you any good. If you barely know how to play it won't sound too good either. if your a decent player it will probably sound like a beat up second hand unit. However, if your a concert pianist well then you will appreciate the nuances of sound and be able to extract the max from that piano.

You can apply that to honing if you wish.

I don't remember who it was, but some last year wrote something like "Just because you have a basketball, that doesn't make you Michael Jordon."