Thread: Coticule and what i think

About Coticules
I have a feeling most people thinks I hate coticules.
Let me tell you my position about coticules.
Coticule is a great stone if you know when to use it and what is your purpose .
Do I think you can use coticule and get edge which you would be able to shave your face answer is YES.
Would you get greatest edge available OUT THERE by using coticule answer is NO
Can you get better edge then coticule to shave your face answer is Yes.
Now can you use Coticule set bevel -yes but will take enormous time to compare dmt 1200k or Norton 1k/4/ etc.
You can set final edge using coticule answer is yes -But you will get better edges by using Escher’s , thuringians, Nakayama etc.
Todays date I think we have more alternative better options available then just Coticule.

I wanted just let my position be clear to rest of you.
Have a good day.
Respectfully
Sham.

I don't disagree with a single thing you have said, but I do have a different point of view.

I shaved for 28 years off of a barber hone. I didn't know any better but I got great shaves anyway. Now I use a coticule. I have a Norton 4K/8K, a Chinese 12K and pastes, but I hardly use them. What I object to is giving new people the idea that honing is complicated and that you need to spend a lot of money on hones. Someone could get by just fine with a barbers hone or a coticule and they could learn to get great shaves from them. Or, if they want to make a hobby of it, or chase the ultimate edge, they can do that too. You probably can get a fantastic edge off of an expensive Japanese hone but I'm not going to buy one because I don't think I would get that much better of a shave.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

I don't disagree with a single thing you have said, but I do have a different point of view.

I shaved for 28 years off of a barber hone. I didn't know any better but I got great shaves anyway. Now I use a coticule. I have a Norton 4K/8K, a Chinese 12K and pastes, but I hardly use them. What I object to is giving new people the idea that honing is complicated and that you need to spend a lot of money on hones. Someone could get by just fine with a barbers hone or a coticule and they could learn to get great shaves from them. Or, if they want to make a hobby of it, or chase the ultimate edge, they can do that too. You probably can get a fantastic edge off of an expensive Japanese hone but I'm not going to buy one because I don't think I would get that much better of a shave.

Sorry here, but I think you are twisting this to how you would like to see it. Honing is not complicated, but it has proven difficult for many new people joining our ranks. A barbers hone is an inexpensive alternative, but can you imaging a new guy using one on an ebay special and many buy these to start. A coticule is a nice start, but a small one is the least expensive and it is more difficult to learn out of the palm of your hand or even with a small one on a table. An 8x3 coticule was around $200 last I checked. Whether you buy a Japanese hone or not, you are entitled to your opinion of them without having tried one, but so is someone who disagrees with you because they have tried one and find it better. It would be nice if people did not speculate at all about hones they have never tried. If you have used another hone, your opinion certainly holds more weight then. But, don't expect everyone who has tried a bunch of different hones to have the same opinion on each of them either. New people and all members for that matter, should entitled to all opinions on all stones so long as we respect all presenters.

Thanks,

Lynn

Originally Posted by Lynn

Sorry here, but I think you are twisting this to how you would like to see it. Honing is not complicated, but it has proven difficult for many new people joining our ranks. A barbers hone is an inexpensive alternative, but can you imaging a new guy using one on an ebay special and many buy these to start. A coticule is a nice start, but a small one is the least expensive and it is more difficult to learn out of the palm of your hand or even with a small one on a table. An 8x3 coticule was around $200 last I checked. Whether you buy a Japanese hone or not, you are entitled to your opinion of them without having tried one, but so is someone who disagrees with you because they have tried one and find it better. It would be nice if people did not speculate at all about hones they have never tried. If you have used another hone, your opinion certainly holds more weight then. But, don't expect everyone who has tried a bunch of different hones to have the same opinion on each of them either. New people and all members for that matter, should entitled to all opinions on all stones so long as we respect all presenters.

Thanks,

Lynn

I'm not talking about someone who buys an eBay special and wants to restore it. That's a hobbyist. I'm talking about someone who buys a shave ready razor and wants to maintain it. You can do that with a barber hone or a coticule bout. You certainly don't need a Norton 4K/8K. I bought a Chinese 12K because it was inexpensive and I even used pastes for a while. There was some improvement but they weren't worth the effort for me. I would never express an opinion about a hone I haven't used except to say that I wasn't going to buy one. This is based on the fact that I hadn't seen a big improvement in my shaving with the Chinese 12K and the pastes and probably wouldn't appreciate what the expensive Japanese hone was doing. This is a personal preference.

I learned to touch up my razor with a barber hone. I held it in my hand. It's not that hard to learn. I have a 1" wide BBW/Coticule combo, I hold it in my hand. It feels natural to me to do it this way. I don't like using the Norton on a table, it's a personal preference. If you tell me that it's not the most efficient way to work, I believe you.

So, I'm not twisting anything and I'm certainly not trying to get in the middle of the Bart vs. hi_bud_gl/Lynn controversy. I'm just saying that if you start with a shave ready razor, you can maintain it with a barbers hone or a coticule. Why is that controversial?

Originally Posted by Chimensch

I'm not talking about someone who buys an eBay special and wants to restore it. That's a hobbyist. I'm talking about someone who buys a shave ready razor and wants to maintain it. You can do that with a barber hone or a coticule bout. You certainly don't need a Norton 4K/8K. I bought a Chinese 12K because it was inexpensive and I even used pastes for a while. There was some improvement but they weren't worth the effort for me. I would never express an opinion about a hone I haven't used except to say that I wasn't going to buy one. This is based on the fact that I hadn't seen a big improvement in my shaving with the Chinese 12K and the pastes and probably wouldn't appreciate what the expensive Japanese hone was doing. This is a personal preference.

I learned to touch up my razor with a barber hone. I held it in my hand. It's not that hard to learn. I have a 1" wide BBW/Coticule combo, I hold it in my hand. It feels natural to me to do it this way. I don't like using the Norton on a table, it's a personal preference. If you tell me that it's not the most efficient way to work, I believe you.

So, I'm not twisting anything and I'm certainly not trying to get in the middle of the Bart vs. hi_bud_gl/Lynn controversy. I'm just saying that if you start with a shave ready razor, you can maintain it with a barbers hone or a coticule. Why is that controversial?

You are trying to get in the middle. Sorry. And you know it. Many of our members do not buy new razors right off the bat and if you are not clear as you were above, they see that you are successful with a barber hone they buy one. Sorry again, but you are giving your opinion above about what you think something will do and not your personal preference.

There is no controversy in this matter other than what you are making of it.

Thanks,

Lynn

Originally Posted by Lynn

You are trying to get in the middle. Sorry. And you know it.

There is no controversy in this matter other than what you are making of it.

I think that threads get heated and people get offended and leave when posters start making personal comments like this, that atempt to characterize the other person's motives.

Now, I am neither the first or last person on this forum that has suggested that a razor could be maintained with a barbers hone, so I asked myself why you decided to single me out.

I have thought about your response to me for some time and I just want to go on record that I wrote you in a PM that I thought you were rude to Bart. In a PM and not in public. Then, shortly after, you are rude to me in public. Lynn, you have a special posiiton here as the founder of this forum and public criticism from you does sting. I think you should keep this in mind when you lose your temper.

Allow me to disagree with people who say it can't be done

Anyone remember this:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...challenge.html


I did this when I was relatively new to honing, and I only had a coticule.
Sure, it may take some (or a lot of) time, but you can even restore badly damaged edges with a coticule.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Allow me to disagree with people who say it can't be done

Anyone remember this:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...challenge.html


I did this when I was relatively new to honing, and I only had a coticule.
Sure, it may take some (or a lot of) time, but you can even restore badly damaged edges with a coticule.

I first brought my coticule in reading your post on coti. Do you still use the yellow coticule nower days.

This thread was about clarifying a posistion, I think it should be left that way and not turn into the inevitable 'well I think . . . ' type of thread. There are so many variables to honing before you even sit down in front of a stone it's just not even worth going there.

If your way works for you, then great, if you want to advise other people then that's great as well, but I'm really not sure what is to be gained by endless comparisons - unless requested by the poster of the thread - they're just not where it's at IMO.

You're ****ing into the wind if you start trying to suggest one is better than the other, the key word is different.

This was not directed at any one at all, it's just where I stand on issues like this in general.

Originally Posted by Chimensch

What I object to is giving new people the idea that honing is complicated and that you need to spend a lot of money on hones. Someone could get by just fine with a barbers hone or a coticule and they could learn to get great shaves from them.

I totally whole heartedly disagree with your statement "in this day and age"

And here is why
Not one of the new production razors comes from the factory like they did in the old days with a "Hair Tested" stamp on the box... You can hardly ever find a truly NOS razor for sale on e-bay nor anywhere else for that matter, these were way more common just 2 years ago...

Even in the Golden Age of straight razors there were Cutlers who set the razor then the average Joe maintained the razor...

So to tell somebody new that you can get by with a barbers hone or even just a coticule is a path to frustration....

Now if you were to qualify that and say "You can get by with just a barbers hone or a coticule after the razor has been honed to shave ready and you learn how to use them to maintain your razor"

Then I would whole heartedly agree....

The difference here is a small one and many of you miss the point, are you maintaining razors or are you sharpening razors????

To maintain a razor requires exactly what you said, to sharpen razors requires Time, Proper Hones, and Talent.....