Thread: Barber says no!

So my barber used to do professional shaves in Italy...for over 20 years. I was asking him about honing, since I can't seem to get it right.

First of all, he said never hone leading with the cutting edge of the blade. He couldn't believe I was doing an x pattern with the sharp edge in front. He hones with the cutting edge trailing. Second, he said to never place the razor flat on the stone. He hones his razor with the spine lifted up slightly, at some random angle.

That makes me wonder - what would the difference be in leading or trailing the cutting edge? I've seen it written that you back hone when the blade is overhoned, by why not do it all the time?

The way that I understand it is that when you are honing you are removing old metal.
The old metal comes off leaving a new edge.

When stropping I visualize that the edge is being elongated or straightened. It seems to me that when you strop you are moving the blade opposite the direction of shaving. When I shave I visualize the edge as being shortened.

As far as honing with a stropping motion, it would seem to me that it would take a much longer time. I am a relative newbie, so I am just surmising.

Never ever saying somebody is wrong... because every time you say something like that it ends up biting ya in the butt...

Just keep in mind that the honing style that we use was not invented by people here at SRP, certain techniques were, but not the edge forward, spine flat, X stroke... This is found on multiple razor instruction sheets and hone instructions sheets going back 100's of years that were included in with the razors and hones....

Some people use a stropping stroke or spine first on the final few stokes on high grit finishers

Ahhh! Now I understand the origin of 3/8 inch wide razors on e-bay that started out as 6/8!

I am a barber and the guy i worked with is now 78 and he taught me to hone in x patern with the edge leading and his dad befor him also passed this on to his son. And that way works very well the first i have heard i'm sure lynn or some one must of tryed this and if it worked they would recomend it .

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Never ever say somebody is wrong... because every time you say something like that it ends up biting ya in the butt...

I'll second that. I've had to eat crow often enough to know better.

I know that there's more than one way to skin a cat (but really, how often do you really need skin a cat? I mean, c'mon, I've never had call to skin one in all my life and I'm almost 46.). The real test is how well it shaves after he hones. It may be a very good way to hone, if anyone is willing to give it a try. Let us know how it comes out, please.

First I do not think that it is a random angle. Most professional knife sharpeners know the angle that they need by sight or feel. So it is probably something akin to that. As far as a backward pattern if you are removing metal what is the difference between a back stroke and forward stroke? They both remove metal right? Does the spine first create a more stretched edge whereas the edge leading creates a more compacted edge?

First, along the lines of what Glen wrote, Swaty made about 5 million barber hones, and they all came with instructions detailing how to hone a razor this "wrong" way.

Second, I've watched the Maestro Livi honing videos several times. If I recall correctly from his website, his family has been involved with cutlery for a few hundred years. Now, I'm going to assume he is an Italian who knows how hone a razor, and I really doubt that he and his family have been doing it "wrong" all those years.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I'll second that. I've had to eat crow often enough to know better.

I know that there's more than one way to skin a cat (but really, how often do you really need skin a cat? I mean, c'mon, I've never had call to skin one in all my life and I'm almost 46.). The real test is how well it shaves after he hones. It may be a very good way to hone, if anyone is willing to give it a try. Let us know how it comes out, please.

+1. I too can vouch for the bitter taste of crow. If the method works for him then it must be a valid way to hone. As the honemeisters have often stated, there so many differences between razors, hones, people's experience, etc. that there are plenty of ways to "skin that cat."

Incidentally, I heard that the "cat" referred to in that old saying was a catfish. As the fishermen on this board would attest, one does indeed skin them - and it can be as much of a challenge to do as it is to hone a razor!

Cheers,
Jeff

Since I originally started out with sharpening knives, I'm used to that back stroke and often use it on razors too. It works with no ill effects.
I could even imagine (with a wide enough razor) that its possible to lift the back up up a little. Thats what I hardly do.
Actually you use the back stroke because steel is said to have a certain elasticity you can take advantage from in this manner. Saves on material.

If now someone says he's doing a certain number of strokes each side, then turn over - even that works. Sometimes its good to correct an irregular bevel even.