Thread: Barber says no!

Sure is!
Just love to hear it all and pick the best for any given situation.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

What is this "burr" you keep mentioning?????

I have never ever raised a burr on a razor unless I was intentionally using heavy pressure and circles or Japanese strokes to bring a warped wedge into line....
And I got rid of it using backhoning then went back to edge forward...

Keep in mind were talking maybe 10 times out of all the razors I have honed

A burr forms, however small, when a blade has achieved sharpness. It's what does the cutting. The object of sharpening is two-fold: the first is to establish an edge (get a burr) with the desired geometry, and the second is to reduce that burr by using ever finer stones. You may hear of residual burrs, which is the buildup of the burr caused by it rolling up on itself, like a tube wave. It is much more common in kitchen knife sharpening because you tend not to alternate strokes for the majority of the sharpening process.

If you are alternating strokes, the burr will be very small, and it will be wiped off when you turn the blade over, but it will always form on the top side of the blade.

To quote Sly of Sly and the Family Stone, "Different Strokes For Different Folks"
I couldn't resist...

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

A burr forms, however small, when a blade has achieved sharpness. It's what does the cutting. The object of sharpening is two-fold: the first is to establish an edge (get a burr) with the desired geometry, and the second is to reduce that burr by using ever finer stones. You may hear of residual burrs, which is the buildup of the burr caused by it rolling up on itself, like a tube wave. It is much more common in kitchen knife sharpening because you tend not to alternate strokes for the majority of the sharpening process.

If you are alternating strokes, the burr will be very small, and it will be wiped off when you turn the blade over, but it will always form on the top side of the blade.

I think we are confusing semantics here...

But just to clarify ???? Can you see this "burr" at anything under 200x magnification????? I am talking about straight razors BTW not kitchen knives nor tools, just straight razors.....

In the much ballyhooed Verhoven paper, he does an experiment in regards to edge first, or edge trailing, and found much better results with edge leading honing. The theory is that the edge "sees" only the hone that removes the metal from the edge cleanly, and all the debris of the honing process therefore exits to the back of the blade.

When done with the edge trailing, all of the crap that gets honed off of the bevel before it gets to the cutting edge gets shmooshed under there and mucks things up.

Verhoven didn't use highly technical phrases suich as "shmooshin", and "mucked up", but I'm an engineer dagnabbit, and I gotta use phrases such as that to make me sound high-falooting.


I will also say that I don't hold anything that a barber says in any more regard than what anyone else says, and perhaps even less so, as these guys are expert at slinging the B.S. all day long.

Sort of like us here at SRP!

Seraphim, he must have cleaned his hone after each stroke then.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

In the much ballyhooed Verhoven paper, he does an experiment in regards to edge first, or edge trailing, and found much better results with edge leading honing. The theory is that the edge "sees" only the hone that removes the metal from the edge cleanly, and all the debris of the honing process therefore exits to the back of the blade.

When done with the edge trailing, all of the crap that gets honed off of the bevel before it gets to the cutting edge gets shmooshed under there and mucks things up.

Verhoven didn't use highly technical phrases suich as "shmooshin", and "mucked up", but I'm an engineer dagnabbit, and I gotta use phrases such as that to make me sound high-falooting.


I will also say that I don't hold anything that a barber says in any more regard than what anyone else says, and perhaps even less so, as these guys are expert at slinging the B.S. all day long.

Sort of like us here at SRP!

I think you have found the best technical terms possible we should have a wiki glossary!

I have come to agree with your barber that leading the cutting edge into the stone is the cause of what so many guys report as micro-chipping. I now hone razors sideways - actually about 20 deg. off of perfectly sideways since the shoulder of the razor prevents the kind of side honing you can do with a plane iron. I show this in my DVD along with the jointing technique. Works for me and NO microchipping.

Originally Posted by prhomme

he said never hone leading with the cutting edge of the blade. He couldn't believe I was doing an x pattern with the sharp edge in front. He hones with the cutting edge trailing. Second, he said to never place the razor flat on the stone. He hones his razor with the spine lifted up slightly, at some random angle.

We can speculate whether HE managed to get good edges that way, but I'm absolutely certain that most of US would end up with butter knives if we copied him. For that reason he was wrong to give you that advice.

The basic method advocated on SRP is ... well ... methodical. It is based on sound principles that are easy to learn. And it is proven to work.

What your barber did reminds me of what someone here posted about the "Belgium" method of using loose, pasted strops and allowing hones to develop a dished surface. Sure, it's an alternative approach, you can get a sharp edge even if the bevel is rounded, but why use a complicated, rather random technique when you can do it in a simple, obviously effective way?

Who knows, maybe rounded bevels are superior, and the "other" way could be seen as an advanced method. But until someone offers to train you up to do it properly, I think aiming for nice flat bevels is the best way to go.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I think we are confusing semantics here...

But just to clarify ???? Can you see this "burr" at anything under 200x magnification????? I am talking about straight razors BTW not kitchen knives nor tools, just straight razors.....

I see where Glen is going here. With many tools you hone one side until you get a burr, then flip and remove the burr. With such a "large" thin piece at the edge of the blade I can see it rolling up on itself.

With a straight though you should never have a "burr" as I explained it above. We have all for the most parts seen many different magnified pictures of straight and I have never seen anything resembling a burr rolled up on itself. All straight razor edges should look like triangle when cross sectioned.

If you are honing a razor and seeing this type of burr you are probably using too much pressure.