Thread: WOWZA Sharp!!

I asked you this last time and I understood your answer then, but now I'm puzzled. You have a razor that's shaving well that you want to bring to the best state. Presumably, whatever test you use tells you it's shavable, so it only needs refining.

Why then, would you ever go back to a 4K stone and rough up the edge? It seems to me that even 15 laps on the 8K may be going in the wrong direction. If that razor grabs, you need to go finer, not coarser. If, at that point, a couple of swipes on a barber hone don't improve the edge, I would think you need an even finer stone (15K) or a .5 paste.

What am I missing?

[quote=randydance062449]

Originally Posted by "showme1or2"
Randy, am I doomed to mediocrity and so-so shaves if I only have the 4000/8000 and a strop?

showme[/quote

No you are are not doomed! You can get an excellent shave with the 8000 Norton. That is why it is recommended. As I said in my prior post on this subject, this is an incremental thing. Getting the edge to the excellent stage takes time. You do not need a pasted paddle strop with .5 and .25 diamond paste. they will never make up for a razor that is not shaving well. They will smooth it out and provide that final finishing touch. But the basic sharpness must still be there first.

If your razor is not shaving you the way that you wish then use a more aggressive sequence.
Such as
15/5
10/5
5/5
1/5
1/5

use the thumb test or hanging hair test after each sequence and whn you are satisfied then strop and test shave.

This is more in line with my understanding. I know Randy is an experienced honemeister, so I'm trying to understand why such a razor would be sent back to a stone as coarse as a 4K or even an 8K.

Originally Posted by Tony Miller

Randy,
I have to disagree with the statement that a pasted strop will never make a razor that is not shaving well work. No, it won't take a dull eBay find to shave ready but it will easily maintain any reasonably sharp razor and will bring back some pretty dull examples. Now I do use more than just the 0.5 and 0.25 but seldom use a hone on any razor. I have brought back some pretty dull razors and sharpen everything I sell on just pasted strops. I have also used "shave ready" razors sharpened by others on just a stone and to me and my beard at least, well they need more than just the stone to be their best.

It comes down to proper tool for the job. The Norton will do just about everything but it is not the only tool out there and may not be the best final step before a shave. A new razor out of the box that is not that sharp can easily be brought to shave ready with just pastes. Nicks, chips, 50 year old eBay finds...use a Norton, no doubt.

Yes, I am biased because I make ands sell strops but I do so because I found that a stone alone was not enough. Different people get different results. What works for me or works for you may not work for others. It take experimentation and time and practivce with any or the tools to get the best results.

Best,
Tony

Ok guys, it time for some clarification. The problems arise when I try to answer a post and not give it enough time.

This arose because Showme1or2 was wondering if a
Norton 4000/8000 was adequate to get a razor keen and give him an excellent shave.
The answer is a definite yes!
I hope there is no disputing that point.

The point at issue is whether or not a pasted strop is "necessary" to obtain a keen shaving edge. My answer is "no, it is not necessary".

Are the pasted strops benefical? Yes, most definitely. I use
them on every razor. Why? Because they make a shaving sharp razor even better.

Can you make a razor shaving sharp with just a pasted strop?
Yes. If you have the grit that is appropriate for the stage of the razors sharpness.

Using a fine 0.5 grit on a razor instead of the 8000 Norton ( or any other fine stone) will work but it is simply slower.

My statement that a pasted strop will not make up for a dull razor was made with the thought in mind of a razor that was pulling at the beard and would not pass the hanging hair test.
To use a pasted strop with either 0.5 micron or 0.25 micron abrasives would be an exercise in wasted time. A Norton 4000/8000 would be the best tool for a razor at that stage. This assumes that the person has a 4000/8000 hone at their disposal or similar hones and does not have a pasted strop with coarse grits.

My reasoning is simply the rate of steel removal that will occur with each of the tools. I would rather use a 4000 Norton for 15-30 laps than waste my time using the 8000 for twice or three times that or ten times that if I used a 0.5 micron pasted strop.

One of the major problems we have here is that we seldom know the level of sharpness of any razor that we are talking about.
This leads to a lot of suggestions that may not be useful and some that are.

The pasted strops will work for most of the razors that we encounter provided that visible nick removal is not required. The requirement for the abrasive pastes is the same as the requirements for the stones. You must have a range of grits available.

I should not have used the word "never". It seems to have sparked this thread. I should have said that instead of using a pasted strop at this point a quicker result could be had by going back to the Norton.

The reason for going back to the 4000 instead of going to a finer grit, 12000+, is that you should be able to get to the hanging hair stage and a smooth shave with just the 8000 Norton. So, if its not shaving well then the bevel needs further refinement. That is the job of the 4000 grit. You could stay with the 8000 or the 12000 or a pasted strop but it would simply take longer.

Hope this clarifies things,

I use the scary sharp system with two pastes - the Black graphite paste first (about 5 micron?) for about 8 passes followed by maybe 20 passes with the CrO2. It makes a noticeable improvement on even the razors I get from Lynn.

Also - the top line Dovo Russian Leather strop makes a noticeable improvement over the Illiniois strop I had. No comparison there.

Bob

Randy,
Your clarification makes good sense. I was coming at pasted strops from the other direction. I was first introduced to them from the coarse end 1.0 micron Amplex and a 2.0 micron or so TI paste. With these coarse pastes I got quick results. From your point, 0.5 and 0.25 I fully agree. A waste of time if doing anything but fine tuning an already sharp edge. For that the 4K/8K is a better choice.
Tony

Originally Posted by jmsbcknr

I am experimenting with using the Scary Sharp system that uses a step down process from 6 micron to 0.5 micron to 0.25 micron paste and am having some nice success. The shaves I am getting are really nice.

jmsbcknr

I am a big fan of Handamerican products too. The scary sharp system is about the best value out there for knife sharpening. I am glad to see that it works for razors too.