Thread: Intentionally dulling a razor

Originally Posted by kevint

Nope: Jointing in this instance refers simply to straight-lining, flatting

I know, but I was trying to point out where the practice, however irrelevant to straight razor and knife sharpening, could possibly come from. It would not be the first time someone decides to copy something useful from one field into another without realizing it looses all relevance in the new context.

Chisels and plane blades are often "breadknifed" (although I don't think any woodworker would call it that) to remove chips and reshape the original curve of the tool, before completing a new bevel. But rubbing the razor edge-down once or twice over a fine hone before starting the real work on that hone, serves no purpose. If there are teeth to remove, caused by the previous hone, normal honing will do just that. There is no extra advantage. At least not anything that I can see under a scope or discern while test shaving the final edge. Quite the contrary. On a very fine slow hone, it might be almost impossible to regain the keenness lost from such a downstroking action.
We tell people to be very carefull not to lift the spine while honing, because it seriously might set the edge back. I surely am not going to advice to rub the edge over a hone before finishing it. I know Maestro Livi does it on a video that circulates here. But he also relies on a lot of CrO stropping to get his edge up to speed after that. I have honed one Maestro Livi edge, on a razor sent to me by a member that had one shave with it. Out of curiosity, I shaved with it as it arrived. It was an impeccable razor and it shaved well enough. But it was not difficult to improve the edge it caried. I don't consider that video gospel.

Bart.

I appreciate yours and all the other skilled whetstoners opinions on this subject. Bringing the apex to a pre-polished surface was my best effort at imaginative engineering. I can also see that in the final stages it would promote a singular line of edge. For instance transitioning from a soft, juicy middle stone to hard slow releasing finisher

I have only read the descriptions here of HMS techniques demo'd in Howard's video, based on a single comment about the amount of swarf produced I would gather he is using something more than razor's weight technique. Along with, not a too slow cutting hone. aka a perfect storm scenario for chancing upon minichips.

A touch of pressure is something I do not fear using.

Wow this one is taking all sorts of directions...

So let me give a "for instance" where an 'experienced Honemiester" would use this method...

I truly wish I could send you guys this razor to feel the edge, but Lynn, Max, Dan, and anyone that restores razors using buffing wheels and compounds knows what I have here.....

Take a messed up W&B wedge and polish the crap out of it using buffers and compound and what you have is basically an overhoned edge,,, a rough wire edge left from the buffing....

So I smooth it up lightly on the back of a stone, then do 20 bevel setting strokes on a N1k then very, very, lightly dull the edge one more time, before I begin bevel setting for real.... this gives me an even edge to start with....

Yes I could do some backhoning, or even drop it down in grit, to hone it, but I know this works just as fast, and I am more sure of the edge start....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Wow this one is taking all sorts of directions...

Yeah, I think we're addressing (mixing up?) at least 3 different things:

1. breadknifing steel away that needs to go anyway (being burred, or chipped, or slightly annealed by the restoration process. (this is prior to setting the bevel)

2. dulling the edge on glass before correcting a bevel. (a suggestion to make it easier to know when the bevel is ready)

3. rubbing the edge down on a hone in between different steps of a progression (to which some honers attribute certain advantages, that still escape me)

Am I missing one?

There are a lot of different directions here. You're talking about taking off a wire edge, Glen. A wire edge from a razor with a bevel set if I understand correctly? For that tactic at that stage, you emphasized what IMO is important "very light" in removing the wire. I do something similar on the edge of a balsa strop after edges have gone to .5 mic diamond and chrome ox (way after bevel set) with no problems.

Purposely dulling an edge prior to honing...... I have experimented with this on a few razors and carefully viewed the edge progression along the way. Counting hone strokes, etc. I used a corner of a coticule where the previous owner of the vintage coticule had clearly made a habit of doing just that with the grooves cut into the corner of the stone. I took some razors with nicks and chips to the edge and proceeded to get clean and straight edges in short time as seen under magnification. Edges, that took a very long time, given that they were "jointed", to actually meet in a sharp edge. What I gained in creating an even edge quickly, I lost in honing that blunt edge to sharp. I concluded unscientifically that simply honing out the nicks or chips (small and micro-sized) was just as fast. Which was faster? I couldn't say. I'm not a fan of "breadknifing" but it seems to work well for others.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I concluded unscientifically that simply honing out the nicks or chips (small and micro-sized) was just as fast. Which was faster? I couldn't say. I'm not a fan of "breadknifing" but it seems to work well for others.

Chris L

I think you are missing the point here, it isn't about faster, if I want fast I can just hone straight off the buffers heck the edge is sharp.... But I want even /accurate too, and ultimately I think I can get a smoother edge...Keep in mind this only adds about 20 laps to my honing set...

Now going to actual Bread-knifing, for damage repair, as in restoration, that is a whole different ball game, and not part of this discussion in my eyes....

I think I will just stick to taking it down to a lower grit. You guys are confusing me. I am a simple man with simple ideas - rub razor on stone until it is sharp.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I think I will just stick to taking it down to a lower grit. You guys are confusing me. I am a simple man with simple ideas - rub razor on stone until it is sharp.

James.

but do you rub with pointy side laying down, or pointy side standing up?

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

but do you rub with pointy side laying down, or pointy side standing up?

Well, now you are just getting into details again.... lol!

In all honesty, if dulling the edge works for you by all means carry on. For me, there is no problem that cannot be solved with time, patience, and a lower grit stone (oh, and a 44 gallon drum of hydrochloric acid, but that is getting off-topic.... )

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

For me, there is no problem that cannot be solved with time, patience, and a lower grit stone (oh, and a 44 gallon drum of hydrochloric acid, but that is getting off-topic.... )

James.

Hmmmm my theory of life only replace the lower grit stone with "an accurate rifle" and the acid with "the proper application of


high explosives"



But as you said we are getting way

But I am having way more fun