Thread: Bevel Setting

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Actually in real life not the "Gritzone" I am going to explain here so there are no more misunderstanding because you guys just confused the heck outta this very simple thread....

Not everything in life is so simple it can be put in one-liners.
I tried to make my point is the clearest way I could.
I also said that I agree with the big picture, only that I think that the speed difference between 1K and 4K is bigger than you seem to think.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now what you guys are saying is according to the grit charts (...)

Nope. I try to offer an explanation for something I experience in real life. (more about that in a minute) From what I understand of your first post, it was you that were saying that 4K is 4 times slower than 1K. That sounds pretty much like going by the figures. If I'm allowed to translate to 4/8K, than 2 laps on the 8K removes the same amount of steel than 1K lap on the 4K. To calculate even further: 4X 16k= 2X8K = 1X4K. This opens interesting perspectives for saving money spend on hones. If it were true.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

and what you read because neither of you actually hone on Nortons that I have ever read about anyway, and please correct me if I am wrong...

That is correct. I don't own any Norton hones. I own the DMTs 325, 600 and 1200 grit. I also own the Chosera 5K and 10K. As far as hones with numbers, that's all real life experience I have to offer. Having used them, I always had the distinct impression that the speeds differences are considerably bigger than what a simple division of the numbers would suggest. The Norton hones might behave differently. I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Bart says my 20 laps would be closer to 320 laps and Tom says I might not ever get there....
Now on the slow bevel I could take 1600 - 2400 by Bart's calculations and for sure would never get there by Tom's....

I don't really get that. Your 20 laps are always 20 laps.
I can't put words in Tom's mouth, but that's not what I made from his post.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

OK now here's the problem, some of us learned on Norton 4/8's we actually have honed razors on them, in real life, in fact some of us quite a few razors...

I NEVER did that many laps, ever... Oh yeah I can get a shaving sharp razor on one...

What the point is here, is don't go by what it says, go by what it does....Charts don't tell the whole truth...


No offense intended here guys, but the point needed making and the problem is with the charts and info not you guys...
I have the utmost respect for both of you...

That is completely mutual, Glen. Somehow I have the feeling that you read what I said in my first post as a public encouragement to do more laps. But it's the reverse actually. I am not shy of doing many laps myself. Sometimes I'm just too lazy to stand up and get a coarser hone. But there are tasks that simply cannot be done without the proper hone, that offers the required abrasive speed and power. I think we agree on that one.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now back to your regularly scheduled hone zone programing...

Which says yes a Norton 4k will be fine until you start messing with e-bay blades and damaged ones then you might wanna get a 1k...

+1

Originally Posted by gugi

nope 100 laps, you're off by 10

I stand corrected. It was running late yesterday.

Originally Posted by gugi

So, what is the correct number you ask? I believe it is 4 and that comes just from the depth of the grooves of the removed metal. the length of the groves is he same and as far as the width goes it's the same whether you have 4 times more of them when each is 4 times narrower.

At first sight, a sound theory. Basically, an army of spikes plows through the steel. 1K spikes in theory being 4 times larger in diameter than 4K spikes would make 4 laps on 4K remove the same amount of steel as 1 lap on 1K. That was my reasoning a few years back, but it doesn't hold up in reality.

When I woke up today, I took my DMT 325 - 600 combination stone. I placed a small piece of aluminum T-bar upside down on the 325 and honed till the entire top surface of the T had 325 scratches in one direction. Next I changed the honing direction 90 degrees. It took 2 full length strokes on the 325 to completely replace the previous scratch pattern with one running in the new direction. Then I flipped the hone over to the 600 side. (Note that my 325 doubles as a lapping plate for Coticules and that is has considerably more wear than the 600) Still, it took me 20 full length laps to replace the 325 grit scratches with 600 grit scratches. (I made the new scratches perpendicular to the 325 ones) To finish this humble experiment, I replaced the 600 grit scratch pattern with a new one running in perpendicular direction. That took 4 laps.

I could run the same experiment on my Choseras 5K and 10K, but do I really need to? I already know that the two 10K-laps don't equal one 5K laps. Not even close.

Best regards and no disrespect intended,
Bart.