Thread: cannot hone anything

OK, I'm going crazy. I cannot hone anything. I tried a double arrow, a CW. Dahlgren frameback and I cannot get past the TNT. It just doesn't feel right. I had to totally rebuild a bevel, and I used this hone Japanese Waterstone 250/1000 Grit Sharpening Stone on eBay (end time 06-Oct-09 16:31:49 BST)
I lapped it, put one layer of tape on the DA and started on the 220. Nothing... After about 300 laps, nothing.
I used the marker test and got it all off so the technique is, I guess, OK. Maybe the hone is bad.
As the 220 side is porous, all the water I put on it got drained.
So I tried the 1000 side. Again- nothing even after a few hundred laps. Rolling stroke, chisel stroke, 45°, everything and the results were- DULL It doesn't dig in.
WTH? What could be the problem? I could post my honing video so you can see better what I'm doing...
I was looking through the microscope and the edges seems fine. Nice scratches, straight edge, no chipping...
Welcome to the Twillight zone!

Is the edge gripping the thumb or is your thumb sliding freely along cutting edge? I don't use the hones you use but at aguess 220 would normaly porous my 1k norton is.
When bevel setting i find you will put an edge on but also remove it When you can feel edge griping thumb you need to move to at least 4k that will sharpen the edge along with 8k to polish then the tpt should feel realy stiky. could be the hone have you got other grits ie 4k/8k plus?

At first calm down take a brake.
Now 300 laps is way way too much.
i will see your video then i may be better help.

You really need 8K or higher grit to get a shave-ready razor. After 1K get a 3-4K and 8-10K.

Yes, some video footage would be nice.

Some first thoughts:

220 grit really is to coarse for a razor. That counts double for inexperienced hands.

1000 grit should be good to get an edge that passes the TNT and shaves hairs off your forearm easily.
The edge still needs further refinement after that.
There are lots of options here. The Straightrazorplace Wiki is a great resource. I would assist you with a few links, but I can't access the Wiki for some reason right now.

I have looked at your Ebay purchase. Based on what I saw (a unknown brand of stone that looks very cheaply produced) I can't guarantee that it is any good. It would be recommendable to have that stone checked out by an experience honer in your vicinity. In any case: that hone likely needs to be soaked in water for at least 15 minutes before you can use it.

That's all I got for now.
Best regards,
Bart.

Napoleon, here is a series of videos showing Lynn honing at a recent get together. Shows the circles and back and forth strokes that are very efficient in getting a bevel on a tough razor. Take a look at that and see if that doesn't help some. +1 on going with the 1k to get the bevel set and the TNT passed. The 220 might be for getting a big chip out but too much gun for a normal bevel set.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

Is the edge gripping the thumb or is your thumb sliding freely along cutting edge?

It's just sliding freely. My kitchen knives that have been sharpened 10 years ago are sharper.

Originally Posted by Kees

You really need 8K or higher grit to get a shave-ready razor. After 1K get a 3-4K and 8-10K.

I know. But first I need a bevel to go on higher grits.
I have a norton 4/8k, a belgian combo, a barber hone, a spyderco medium and the chinese.
But to get to any combination of these, I need a bevel.
I tried moving on to a coti with heavy slurry, a norton 4k but the edge doesn't seem to get finer- it does get more polished under the microscope, but not sharper.
I'll buy a hand held illuminated microscope and see if I can take some pictures of the edge (if I can hold the scope steadily while taking a photo with my other hand). I have the table top one but I think this will be more practical (like the radioshack one)

Originally Posted by Bart

Yes, some video footage would be nice.

Some first thoughts:

220 grit really is to coarse for a razor. That counts double for inexperienced hands.

1000 grit should be good to get an edge that passes the TNT and shaves hairs off your forearm easily.

I know. It doesnt. Look like I'll just bite the bullet and buy more (and better) stones. I'll learn to hone if it's the last thing I'll do

The edge still needs further refinement after that.
There are lots of options here. The Straightrazorplace Wiki is a great resource. I would assist you with a few links, but I can't access the Wiki for some reason right now.

I have looked at your Ebay purchase. Based on what I saw (a unknown brand of stone that looks very cheaply produced) I can't guarantee that it is any good. It would be recommendable to have that stone checked out by an experience honer in your vicinity. In any case: that hone likely needs to be soaked in water for at least 15 minutes before you can use it.

That's all I got for now.
Best regards,
Bart.

I do think that it may somehow be the stones fault. And it had been soaking longer than my norton.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Napoleon, here is a series of videos showing Lynn honing at a recent get together. Shows the circles and back and forth strokes that are very efficient in getting a bevel on a tough razor. Take a look at that and see if that doesn't help some. +1 on going with the 1k to get the bevel set and the TNT passed. The 220 might be for getting a big chip out but too much gun for a normal bevel set.

I watched the vids (I forgot to mention I did circles too).
I found Kenrups vids very helpful too. I was watching his work.

While doing the 220 I couldn't get a small chip out of a little blade. That got me thinking the stone is not good. 300 laps and not get out a chip that is 1/3 in the "bevel" smells fishy to me... Or am I wrong?


I must add that I honed to shave ready a few razors, but they already had a bevel that just needed to be refined a little. Worked with the 4k and worked with a coti w/heavy slurry.

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll post a vid tomorrow,.

When you don't know what your doing it hard to get a result. No dissrespect but that appears to be the problem. Doing that many laps on such a low grit hone can ruin a razor unless you need to do some really major repair and are highly experienced.

I would recommend you read the Wiki to learn as much as possible before treading further. Then you will probably need a couple quality hones. The guys have already given you good ideas there so just read and learn and then practice with a junk razor once you have the right hones.

That's why I'm honing a DA
Yes, I need to educate myself a lot more, but I gotta start honing at one point or another. Nobody learned how to hone just by reading about it.
And once again, I learned the hard way (about the 4th time)- don't be cheap in shaving supplies cause, in the end, it will cost you more.

Not busting on you here Napoleon, as I see you have already figured it out and being in Croatia it is harder to get stuff...

And once again, I learned the hard way (about the 4th time)- don't be cheap in shaving supplies cause, in the end, it will cost you more.

But for the other Newbs to honing this is the specific reason that we harp so highly on getting known brands of stones from the start.

It will be almost impossible for any of us with experience to help here because we do not know the stone ...

If this were the same scenario but Napoleon had said I have a Norton 4k/8k I have a Coticule I have a Shapton or Naniwa this thread would already be full of helpful hints...

Now back to our thread, hopefully we can tell more from the vid...