Thread: The goal of polishing the edge?

Barry,

Unlike Jimmy, I use a microscope to check the edge as I move up in grit. I have also used the pyramids and they do work as Jimmy mentioned. If you have done the pyramid and find the shave not acceptable, simply go back and repeat the pyramid process again, it will make things better. If still not good enough go back and do the pyramid again. Repeat until you get where you want to be. On the other hand if you find that things don't improve after repeating a pyramid then the technique probably needs refinement?

I think the biggest advantage with the pyramids is it establishes a set of guidelines for when to move on to the next stone. I use a scope to inspect the edge to decide, it helps me to see it because my experience with the thumbpad tests is not so great. It feels sharp to me regardless of whether or not it is ready to move on to the next grit. However, with the scope I can see the microchips that still need to be removed and continue honing until they are gone. I think that eventually you and I will both gain the experience needed to feel and know when to move on, but until then the only way to get there is to practice.

I think if you don't have a scope or some way of inspecting the edge, the pyramids work best because it is at least some way of keeping track of where you are and when to move on, at least until you can learn to feel what "sharp" feels like at the different levels of grit. Hope this helps a little.

An addendum, I wanted to say that I have read in posts, that some people believe that the pyramids work better as technique for actual "scientific" reasons. I have not been able to actually find these explanations but I have no reason to think they are not true. I do know that the system works, but I don't think it is guaranteed that one set of pyramids will get you where want to be. Eventually, they will get you there, but you may need a couple of repetitions, sometimes one will work, other times 2 or 3.

Originally Posted by economica

An addendum, I wanted to say that I have read in posts, that some people believe that the pyramids work better as technique for actual "scientific" reasons. I have not been able to actually find these explanations but I have no reason to think they are not true. I do know that the system works, but I don't think it is guaranteed that one set of pyramids will get you where want to be. Eventually, they will get you there, but you may need a couple of repetitions, sometimes one will work, other times 2 or 3.

+1 IME. My guess is that if it doesn't work in 3 tries it is technique. Look back at the fundementals of pressure, stroke and check if the bevel is adequately set.

Referring to the pyramid method, I spoke to one of the most noted honers around and IIRC he said. "I don't know why it works but it does."

I've not done a whole lot of research into the pyramids, so please educate me on this. I always thought the point of the pyramids was that it gives you a pretty good chance at getting a good edge without you actually having to have the touch and feel of a pro. I'm just guessing, but I always thought that guys who were pretty proficient at honing didn't really use a pyramid, but could tell from experience when to go to the next hone. Essentially, the pyramid does work and is good because it takes some of the "guess work" out. Am I off base with that?

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I've not done a whole lot of research into the pyramids, so please educate me on this. I always thought the point of the pyramids was that it gives you a pretty good chance at getting a good edge without you actually having to have the touch and feel of a pro. I'm just guessing, but I always thought that guys who were pretty proficient at honing didn't really use a pyramid, but could tell from experience when to go to the next hone. Essentially, the pyramid does work and is good because it takes some of the "guess work" out. Am I off base with that?

What I read when I first came around was that a new honer was less likely to over hone an edge using the pyramid method. I learned on that method and continued with it unless I was honing with naturals. In either case I would set the bevel with a synthetic in the 1k neighborhood and then if using synthetics do the pyramid in the 4/8 or the Japanese grit chart equivalent. From there I go back to progressive.

Two of the best honers IMO that I know, who have forgotten more about honing then I know, use pyramids. So being of the "if it works don't fix it" school of thought when using synthetics I am not self conscious about being a pyramid practitioner.

Originally Posted by economica

Barry,
Unlike Jimmy, I use a microscope to check the edge ............ If still not good enough go back and do the pyramid again. Repeat until you get where you want to be. On the other hand if you find that things don't improve after repeating a pyramid then the technique probably needs refinement?

I know my technique is not there yet but I use a scope over and over to understand how I am changing things. It has really helped me. Still don't know why one blade worked well tonight and the other didn't. I tried several things and worked real well on the bevel setting. It was there I think but wouldn't cut until I polished it with the CromOx

WELLLLL,

To get back to topic here.... Tonight my experience showed a HUGE difference between the 8K and the CroOx polishing in my blades ability to cut. I found additional sharpness gained by honing with the CroOx balsa hone.

I test shaved before and after the CroOx and it wouldn't cut before and after it was BBS with ease. I was shocked!

Originally Posted by bjanzen

I know my technique is not there yet but I use a scope over and over to understand how I am changing things. It has really helped me. Still don't know why one blade worked well tonight and the other didn't. I tried several things and worked real well on the bevel setting. It was there I think but wouldn't cut until I polished it with the CromOx

Weird, even under the scope you could not discern a difference between the two edges. Did both edges appear very flat and even and yet one of them still did not shave well?

Originally Posted by economica

Weird, even under the scope you could not discern a difference between the two edges. Did both edges appear very flat and even and yet one of them still did not shave well?

I am still baffled on that blade. I worked and worked to get it to cut arm hair at 4K. Never did. My other blade had 10 X strokes on 1k, then 10 X strokes on 4K and was popping arm hair. This one never would. I honed and honed and no luck. It was nice and sticky with the TPT and looked like a great bevel under the 100x scope view. Finally I decided to just finish the honing and test shaved after 8K and no luck. Wouldn't pop arm hair. The other blade was incredible after 8K. Finally after the polishing on CromOx it started cutting. Seemed like the better shaver of the two blades!

Originally Posted by bjanzen

I am still baffled on that blade. I worked and worked to get it to cut arm hair at 4K. Never did. My other blade had 10 X strokes on 1k, then 10 X strokes on 4K and was popping arm hair. This one never would. I honed and honed and no luck. It was nice and sticky with the TPT and looked like a great bevel under the 100x scope view. Finally I decided to just finish the honing and test shaved after 8K and no luck. Wouldn't pop arm hair. The other blade was incredible after 8K. Finally after the polishing on CromOx it started cutting. Seemed like the better shaver of the two blades!

I have no clue, if anyone figures this out I would love know why also; mostly because what you did is exactly what I do, of course I don't know too much but seems like it should have worked. Wonder if it is the difference in steel used in the blade construction or something like that? Maybe just a stubborn razor?