Honing Mistakes?

**IanS** · 11-28-2009, 05:18 PM

Flipping on the spine while stropping is easier (slightly) because you can hold the tang stationary, which allows a slight lever action on the blade, flipping it with momentum into the correct position naturally. Flipping on the spine when honing actually requires you to counter this momentum. It's not much momentum, so once you get the motion down it's unnoticeable, but while learning it can often make attempts to reverse while honing awkward.

**Thechef** · 11-28-2009, 05:20 PM

Well as long as we all end up with sharp razors and good shaves lets say to hell with it and if it aint broke why fix it!

I use two findgers as I feel I can guide it and control the balde so much more.

**richmondesi** · 11-28-2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Exactly also how you position the stone on a surface or in your hand can change life...

Looking at the "top" of the stone for a right handed person it can go from 12:00 straight up to 3:00 straight sideways Adjust the stone and the stroke so that it is comfortable first,,, then make sure your elbow is level and it should work...

Speed is an opinion too BTW there are some that believe a 1-2 second stroke is the best (8 in hone) and others like Bart that speed hone...
I have no opinion either way and probably fall in the both catagory...
I also fall in the both catagory on one hand-vs-two hands...
and in the "on a surface" or "in the hand" for the stone...

One should never assume just because it works for them on that razor, on that stone, that it is "Right"

Hence back to my original post in this thread "Dude I "planned "it that way"

Ok.. Quick update:

I tried it again with the stone at approximately 1:30 or 2 o'clock and in my hand... much better. Not quite as comfortable, but I feel that I could learn to do this... I did find myself flipping it the "wrong" way some, but the speed and comfort was not all that much different. I will probably work on changing this because the risk that I could damage an edge is worth trying to make an adjustment even before I actually do any damage.

Specific to the two finger issue: Sometimes yes, sometimes no... depends on the circumstances, but either is as comfortable as the other to me...

**StraightRazorDave** · 11-28-2009, 05:39 PM

I've always found holding the hone in my hand much more comfortable. I probably hold it at about 1-2 o'clock (in my left hand) and I find myself tilting it a bit so the inside of my hand is slightly lower. That just seems to be the most comfortable position and as a result I can do my most comortable stroke and consequently fastest. Oh, and I've never had any problems flipping the razor over the spine. I suppose it was a little harder to learn at first, but it really is a fast movement. I really can't see how flipping it over the edge would be any faster....if anything it would be slower since you would need to lift the razor off the hone after each stroke to avoid hitting the edge.

**richmondesi** · 11-28-2009, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

I've always found holding the hone in my hand much more comfortable. I probably hold it at about 1-2 o'clock (in my left hand) and I find myself tilting it a bit so the inside of my hand is slightly lower. That just seems to be the most comfortable position and as a result I can do my most comortable stroke and consequently fastest. Oh, and I've never had any problems flipping the razor over the spine. I suppose it was a little harder to learn at first, but it really is a fast movement. I really can't see how flipping it over the edge would be any faster....if anything it would be slower since you would need to lift the razor off the hone after each stroke to avoid hitting the edge.

I have no doubt that it's slower to flip toward the stone because if you're smart, you don't do it, but if you do, you turn it farther than necessary to ensure that you don't ding the edge on the hone. Please understand, I'm not advocating flipping toward the edge, and I'm probably going to continue to work to fix it. However, I'm getting great shaves, so it's not really causing me any problems. My only fear is if I don't fix it, I'll just get too comfortable and eventually bang an edge or two... That's why I'm prolly going to work on getting more comfortable on the spine flip... Preliminarily, the outlook is good after trying it in my hand.

BTW, I hold the stone just like you... slightly tilted as well

**GregJDS** · 11-28-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Bart

Please advice me how I can win that extra second.
YouTube - stroke.WMV

Just all meant in good fun/ too each his own.

**Bart** · 11-28-2009, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by GregJDS

Is it really possible to create too in depth an analysis on these subjects?

I guess not. I believe Maestro Livi does it your way, so at least you're in good company. I'm just more comfortable keeping the spine in contact with the surface at all times. Rolling, swooping or regular X-strokes. Makes no difference.

If I understand correctly, you turn the razor by turning your wrist. If you would reverse your wrist, so that the away stroke is "palm up" and the stroke back to you is "palm down" (the opposite of what you do now), your would automatically turn over the spine. You would no longer need to lift the razor up that way. (saves time, but let's agree that honing is not a speed contest)

A genuine apology Richmondesi, for taking it that far off topic. I can't help myself.

Kind regards,
Bart.

**richmondesi** · 11-28-2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bart

A genuine apology Richmondesi, for taking it that far off topic. I can't help myself.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Thanks, but that's not necessary Bart. This discussion may potentially "fix" my stroke lowering the risk of damage. I'm always more interested in learning and improving than being "right"

**Lynn** · 11-28-2009, 06:33 PM

Honing is all about mistakes. The best way for someone to learn the good, the bad and the ugly is through making mistakes. When we started a few years ago, there basically were no good instructions for people to learn how to hone, so we have established "guidelines" or a few basic processes for people to learn from. Now we have so much more information available that the opportunity to learn and do well is really great. The basics remain the basics. Every person has to learn an even stroke and an amount of pressure that works well for them as well as what stone and media they prefer. Nothing will replace the fact that the more you hone and the more different things you try, the better you will get. If you hone just for your own use or if you eventually hone a ton of razors, you will continue to learn every time you approach a hone. I think people who end up honing hundreds of razors under stand that you don't know what you don't know at 100 or 200 or 500 razors and even after thousands, you are still learning and of course, still making mistakes. This is the fun of the sport.

One hand, two hands, solid surface, held in the hand, naturals, sythetics, Nortons, Naiwas, Shaptons, rolling, 45 degree angle, X pattern, straight strokes, circles, pressure, no pressure, breadknifing, thin hones, wide hones, oil, water, lather, slurry, pastes, sprays and on and on.......So much fun stuff to try and so many great razors to try them on.

The objective remains......that just a little bit better shave that will be considered perfect beyond compare........

Keep those mistakes coming and have fun,

Lynn
Keep those mistakes coming.

**richmondesi** · 11-28-2009, 06:41 PM

Is it weird that I got excited reading that last post thinking about all the new things that I've yet to try?

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