Thread: Jnats... best guide for getting started?

Holli, the sources I'm reading from suggest that the proper way to use a finishing japanese stone is to get a slurry, continue honing (grinding it down) and letting it concentrate so that you're honing on something similar to a very fine grit paste. It's very possible I'm misunderstanding though. You say slurry on these stones should be used the same way as a garnet slurry? Just to increase cutting power and then wean off of it by watering it down?

Originally Posted by IanS

Holli, the sources I'm reading from suggest that the proper way to use a finishing japanese stone is to get a slurry, continue honing (grinding it down) and letting it concentrate so that you're honing on something similar to a very fine grit paste.

This is correct.Longer you use better edge you will have.

Huh, I guess I've been using mine incorrectly. Too bad the edges are coming out so dang good!

Then you're not doing it incorrectly... just differently.

Ok, just polished up a blade on it (has two microchips I've gotten about 50% out so far in 45 mins on this stone. I also tested the tang of a razor on a corner I wont need for razors.


Tang: With maximum slurry it cuts a tad slower than my 4k king. It leaves a scratch pattern at 100x that is about as small as I think can be noticed. It's got maybe 3-6 degrees of angle where the scratches catch light and show up as very very tiny scratches.

Edge: With just the slurry that comes from honing (I used a little more pressure the first few minutes this time as well). It cuts slow... It took about half an hour to polish out the 4k king scratches. At 100x, it leaves no scratch pattern. At all. At first I thought it was just the slurry hazing it up. So I wiped the edge. Still no scratch. I washed it. Still no scratch. This thing is freaking high grit. Oni was right. I'm definitely going to either need to use it with slurry or find a bridge from my 4k king to this. I'm considering the China 12k based on it being cheap, or another Jnat. 330mate sells some fairly cheap ones he rates as 2-2++ grit which I'm thinking may be right between my 4k king and this guy. (Does that sound about right to you guys that know these stones?) I'll probably see if slurry is successful bridging the king and this first though.


edit: finally caught the light and found the scratch pattern. It's about the same as with the slurry, maybe a touch finer.

Try the stone with slurry generated with nagura or DMT, and see how it does vs 4k scratches. My Narutaki can work 5k scrtaches in no time when I use slurry.

Originally Posted by IanS

Ok, just polished up a blade on it (has two microchips I've gotten about 50% out so far in 45 mins on this stone. I also tested the tang of a razor on a corner I wont need for razors.


Tang: With maximum slurry it cuts a tad slower than my 4k king. It leaves a scratch pattern at 100x that is about as small as I think can be noticed. It's got maybe 3-6 degrees of angle where the scratches catch light and show up as very very tiny scratches.

Edge: With just the slurry that comes from honing (I used a little more pressure the first few minutes this time as well). It cuts slow... It took about half an hour to polish out the 4k king scratches. At 100x, it leaves no scratch pattern. At all. At first I thought it was just the slurry hazing it up. So I wiped the edge. Still no scratch. I washed it. Still no scratch. This thing is freaking high grit. Oni was right. I'm definitely going to either need to use it with slurry or find a bridge from my 4k king to this. I'm considering the China 12k based on it being cheap, or another Jnat. 330mate sells some fairly cheap ones he rates as 2-2++ grit which I'm thinking may be right between my 4k king and this guy. (Does that sound about right to you guys that know these stones?) I'll probably see if slurry is successful bridging the king and this first though.


edit: finally caught the light and found the scratch pattern. It's about the same as with the slurry, maybe a touch finer.

I made a light slurry with DMT and yes, it slid them out of there reasonably quick and halfed again the chips (in about 5 minutes). I'm very pleased so far. I'll put another 10 minutes in today and finish getting the chips out I figure. Then homework for many, many hours. More time to play in two weeks, after finals. :P I'm sure I'll get a little time here and there before then though.

I think what happens with the Japanese nats, is there are tiny holes in some of the strata. When a slurry is raised some of it settles in these holes at the end of honing to be raised the next time water is added. Over time and with use these particles get smaller and smaller. At the end of honing, they fall back into the holes. Someone can correct me, but I believe these holes are called suita.

In order to take advantage of this, I have flattened my 2 most recent finishers and then used a razor I have just for this and done lots of strokes. I am careful to avoid using enough water to wash the slurry off although some does. Eventually, the slurry seems to resolve. Some has obviously slopped over the edge, but some, I believe, resides in the holes in the stone. It is available for future use.

I intend to repeat this process each time I flatten the stones to see if it changes the honing properties of the stone.

Originally Posted by IanS

It took about half an hour to polish out the 4k king scratches. At 100x, it leaves no scratch pattern. At all. At first I thought it was just the slurry hazing it up. So I wiped the edge. Still no scratch. I washed it. Still no scratch. This thing is freaking high grit. Oni was right. I'm definitely going to either need to use it with slurry or find a bridge from my 4k king to this. I'm considering the China 12k based on it being cheap, or another Jnat. 330mate sells some fairly cheap ones he rates as 2-2++ grit which I'm thinking may be right between my 4k king and this guy. (Does that sound about right to you guys that know these stones?) I'll probably see if slurry is successful bridging the king and this first though.

If you're doing that much work, I'd say you definitely need something in between your King 4k and this natural. The C12k won't do it; that is a very fine stone and is also extremely slow.

At the high end, I don't think you should have to do any more than 50 strokes on a single hone, and even 50 is quite high.

Yes, it's a good bit better with a DMT summoned slurry though. I took a smiling razor to it that was swaty finished and polished it for 50 passes flat. Then I checked it and the toe and heal still had scratches, so I tried 20 of the sweeping strokes for dealing with smiles, and those 20 passes were enough to take out all except for 3 or 4 particularly deep scratches from the scratch pattern. I also discovered that my dimo-grit barber hone if a half-decent bridge between 1.2k and king... so other than it's size 2"x3", I think Im pretty much setup for hones for the time being unless I come across a replacement for the dimo cheap. Now to learn this Jnat better and try to resist buying more.