Thread: nakayama maruka vs Uchigumori?

You can buy from 330mate if you do your homework and know what you want. His site is 天然ç*¥çŸ³ 伊予ç*¥ æ*£æœ¬å±± 山城銘ç*¥ 白鷹包ä¸� 玄ç¿� 鉋 é‘¿

Better value there. I think he uses ebay for sizes and stones he has little time for in his store. He views himself as a wholesaler and seems to prefer to opereate that way. Once you've registered on his site and bought a few things (without costing him a lot of time) he is easier to relate to.

I am in a conversation with So about getting some hones and dealing with him is a whole different experience. The conversation started about 6 months ago and is picking up some steam to the conclusion before the holidays. He will really discuss your needs with you and take care to choose the right stone (and teach you about it in the process).

My buying experience from Old_School was top notch. He has carefully chosen finishing hones with an eye to razors. He will tell you if what he has is good for your purpose. His site (in his sig) has good info on it. The hone I have from him may just be my best.

Do not purchase in haste. Purchasing a natural finishing hone can be complex. You can learn on your own and buy from a wholesaler who isn't going to answer a lot of questions (330mate), you can buy from someone who is trustworthy and has razor hones(O_S), or learn from someone who has great experience and lots of hones for different purposes (So Yamashiita from Japan Tool).

Originally Posted by kevint

I use planes. I don't think either of the names in your title is what you want.

NM are too expensive.Nakayama may have the rep as the best; but what does that really mean? There are quite a few really good wood workers using stones who's origin was lost with no idea what it is. the most important thing is the stone does what you want
Uchi_g- while there are soft ones and very hard ones are just not a good choice for a first awasedo.

So Yamashita can help you. I think Alex G at japanblade may be able to assist as well as Tomohito at Waterstone | Wood working tool, Japanese wood working tool shop.

If you are getting the most from your 8k you should be sharp enough for hard wood, but I understand wanting to see and feel what a little more might do, not to mention discovering the taste of japanese stones.

Do you use japanese planes or western- what have you got? how much experience using them?

Hi Kevin,

I use western planes.

The edge I get from the 8k stone is nice(mirror) and is
quite sharp, but I want another stone for final finishing. I am not interested in using chrom oxide or stropping. I like working with stones.

Kevin, I really do not care what the name of the stone is, but I was under the impression that Nakayama/Uchigumori stones were used for final polishing. I now know that Nakayama is the name of the mine where it came from and Maruka is just a brand name.

Correct me if I am wrong. The stone I need is a hard(how hard?), that is very fine and smooth?

Let me make one more thing clear:
If you are not able to produce comfortable shaving edges from an synthetic high quality 8k stone
following some pasting or good leathering
you will eventually not benefit from a high grit stone

I really believe I have got the max out of my 8k stone.
The shavings are easy.

Perhaps a finer stone is not needed, but I still like the
idea of sharpening on a natural finer stone.

I don't know how thin skin can be, but I think we have members that could shave the fuzz off a tissue. Don't go and discount the benefits of the straight razor. You are asking questions here_ now you must try!
I mention names because if you go and ask for nakayama or the best stone; anything like that and you may not see anything to afford. But if you telling what you need the stone to do for you is a better start

It could be best to get something that is similar in hardness to what you use- or you may feel like it is time for a change.
neither too soft nor too hard is as close as i dare nail it down for you. That's what the good sellers are for to get what you need.

I have a thumb size piece of uchigumori, it would be interesting to see how it worked as a hone if it were larger. It is really quite hard.

To know why this one is a sword stone; the other for carpenters is not always easy to say. It is interesting to note that sometimes suita stones are used as replacements for uchigumori in sword polishing. Historically suita are carpenter rocks. If you can find a good suita in your budget that may be the thing. they could be 10, 20 30k hard to say.

Originally Posted by kevint

I don't know how thin skin can be, but I think we have members that could shave the fuzz off a tissue. Don't go and discount the benefits of the straight razor. You are asking questions here_ now you must try!
I mention names because if you go and ask for nakayama or the best stone; anything like that and you may not see anything to afford. But if you telling what you need the stone to do for you is a better start

It could be best to get something that is similar in hardness to what you use- or you may feel like it is time for a change.
neither too soft nor too hard is as close as i dare nail it down for you. That's what the good sellers are for to get what you need.

I have a thumb size piece of uchigumori, it would be interesting to see how it worked as a hone if it were larger. It is really quite hard.

To know why this one is a sword stone; the other for carpenters is not always easy to say. It is interesting to note that sometimes suita stones are used as replacements for uchigumori in sword polishing. Historically suita are carpenter rocks. If you can find a good suita in your budget that may be the thing. they could be 10, 20 30k hard to say.

Kevin, I might use a razor in the future! I probably am just too chicken. I have definitely a thin skin that almost always gets little cuts when I shave. And it is not my poor shaving technique which is causing it but simply a really thin skin. My barber says it to me also about my thin skin.

Kevin, when I wrote that I did not care about the names of the stones I was merely implying that I was looking for a good finishing stone and had read that Nakayama Maruka was the best. I am looking for a good stone, don't care about the name.

I hope you did not misunderstand me there as it was not written as a response to you giving some names of stones.

Found some info saying that after the suite stone, the uchigumori ha to
and uchigumori ji to are used. This is for polishing a sword.

Happy new again everybody

Kevin my 8000 Naniwa SS is a nice stone. I am looking for something harder. I am not sure how the hardness of my Naniwa stone compares to other hones.

Happy new year to everybody by the way.

That Ozuku Asagi looks mighty mighty nice.

The Ohira Suita looks like the medium finisher I am looking for.

Cruel.

Originally Posted by Pyment

That Ozuku Asagi looks mighty mighty nice.

The Ohira Suita looks like the medium finisher I am looking for.

Cruel.

The Ozuku Asagi definitely looks very nice.

It is cruel, as cruel a joke as the warning on Yamashita's site.

I was just replying to another thread and ended thinking, "now I know why I want to talk about stones-it makes me think about getting another hone"-which is all i ever really wanted I just could not in normal waking life justify the expense.

I did not misunderstand. It is always nicer to know what you have. I think I'm trying to say just don't get hung up on it.

I think most sword polishers will tell you the best cutting edge for the sword is in kaisaei-do stage.(or nagura? i am unsure now) Certainly by the end of the foundation polish with uchigumori "sharpening" has become "polishing"

By polishing I mean it is more akin to buffing where the goal is creating and even looking scratch free surface.

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Hi Kevin,

I use western planes.

Correct me if I am wrong. The stone I need is a hard(how hard?), that is very fine and smooth?



.

Are your blades A2 or carbon. I have been a little disappointed with my particular Nakayama on A2 steel. Actualy, the little coticule I just got seems to finish them off better. I was hoping for more performance out of the Nakayama on A2 but might just be my particular stone. Works great on carbon steel razors and tools.
Mike

Originally Posted by Kingfish

Are your blades A2 or carbon. I have been a little disappointed with my particular Nakayama on A2 steel. Actualy, the little coticule I just got seems to finish them off better. I was hoping for more performance out of the Nakayama on A2 but might just be my particular stone. Works great on carbon steel razors and tools.
Mike

Hi Mike, my blade isn't A2. That I do know. My blades
have been hardened to 62,63 Rc or so.

What difference does the hardness of steel make in
sharpening? Harder steel, harder hone necessary?

From my experience the harder hone does not mean it is necessary for harder steels. I can sharpen my Japanese gouges on some relatively soft Japanese synthetics. They are rated higher than western steels, maybe even around R65 ish. They are going to wear faster and are easier to use from my experience. With a flat plane blade, stone hardness is not something you have to have. Having said that, I could understand why you would want a very hard stone that cuts relatively quick, that takes your honing skills to te limit, just be prepaired to pay for it cause they seem to be the ones that are most rare and most desired. The mentioned vendors can definitley help you if you tell them what you want and in the long run will more than likely save you money not having to get random stones that are not to your liking.
Mike