Thread: Troubleshooting an eBay Special

Here's the situation: I'm trying to hone a 4/8 Geneva Cutlery Co. I got on the bay for a few bucks. After going through the entire honing routine I was able to get a pretty good edge on it, except for the last 1/4" or so at the heel and the toe. I am using a 1K, 5K, 8K 12K Naniwa set and have a DMT for lapping. (Explaining "pretty good edge": If the Dovo I have from SRD is in the "A" range, and the razors I have from two other members with experience are in the "B/B+" range, the edge I have in the middle is safely a "C+". The toe & heel areas aren't shave ready so I guess a teacher would mark them "Incomplete". Maybe if the entire razor kept the "C+" edge, a few more laps on the 12K or a CO pasted strop could inch me closer to "B minus-minus" if that makes sense. Maybe it's a better edge than I think, but I'm hesitant to mark myself better just yet.)

Here was my routine: I did circles and X strokes on the 1K then moved off that with only about half the edge in the middle sticky sharp by the TPT, but the whole edge starting taking off leg hair with a little pressure after just a few laps of circles and then smooth laps on the 5K, so I don't think moving up was such a bad idea. I did 20 - 5K laps and 20 8K and thought it could be better, so I went back and did 10 & 10 and the edge came out even nicer, cutting down hairs with barely any pressure. After about 25 light laps the 12k, the meat of the edge is mowing down hairs really nicely with very slight pressure/resistance. The two trouble spots need a steep angle and pressure to do it, so that's no good. The bevel in the toe area is visible and thinner than the rest of the edge. The heel bevel is also visible but even with the meat of the edge. I can't get photos of it, but the bevel looks pretty normal IMO. Not particularly wide or thin, just like all my other razors honed by folks who know what they're doing.

Shave test: After about 20 laps on just my leather strop, all but these two areas are shaving a beard with just a few dabs of water - no prep or lather. I think this is a good sign and if not for these areas I think a good shave is in here since the stropping took away the little resistance I had off the 12K. The heel area isn't as big of a deal since it's sort of "out of the way," but not having the toe affects the shaving tremendously. The toe does not shave and needs to be kept off my face. It pulls a lot in that one spot and throws off the glide of the razor.

Some other info - the blade does not have a smile or frown, which I can tell by gently resting the edge on a flat surface. However, there is some strange hone wear near the toe on one side of the razor. (See photos. Ignore the pitting this thing was CHEAP.) Also, inexperience or the stabilizers or something is making it difficult to get the 1/8" - 1/4" by the heel.

My uneducated guess is the hone wear is causing the problem or it's poor lapping or poor technique. Then again, it could be all three or something I haven't thought of.

Discussing the hone wear: it seems like there's more wear near the toe on just one side. The attached photos show it really well - that white line is the bottom of the hone wear and runs at an angle along the spine. Is there a way I ought to compensate for this? (Tape? The rest of the edge worked out without it...) Also, the tang or the stabilizers seem to throw off the heel area. I've tried leading with the heel of razor on the stone, but I don't know.

If it's lapping - how do I make sure I have a properly lapped hone? The reason I bring this up is the pattern of the swarf on the stone isn't even across the width of the stone. Could be a bad indicator and I'm just making myself crazy...

Maybe it's technique and I need to throw in a rolling X or something else. Tips? I'm guessing I should do a marker test, but now that I've come this far I don't know how far back I'd go - I almost wanna say 5K and do light circles to make sure these areas get a good bevel, then move on with a rolling X... Seems like a waste of the work I did...

So that's about all I can think of for now. If questions come up I'll answer them in this thread, but any advice would be awesome. It'd also be nice to learn how to troubleshoot a razor and eliminate various potential problems. Granted I'm a newbie and probably being over-ambitious with this razor, but in the end I don't think I'm too far off the mark.

Thanks in advance for any sage advice!

I had a Solingen full hollow and I was getting everything sharp but the last 1/4" at the point. I called Lynn and asked his advice and he told me to do 80 circles on each side and then x strokes. I went back to my bevel setter and followed his instructions and that did the trick on that particular razor.

I think the easiest way to check those problematic areas would be to use the marker test. Take a Sharpie or something and color the edge, then hone it normally for a few strokes (probably no more than 4) -- if you have any areas still covered with marker then those are not touching the hone properly.

To make sure your hone is lapped, draw a pattern all over the hone with pencil and then lap it on a known-flat surface. If the pencil is removed evenly then you should be set -- if only the lines on the perimeter are removed then it's still slightly concave.

Here's a great tutorial with some images:
Hone Lapping 101 - Straight Razor Place Wiki

EDIT: I'm a newb myself so I'd defer to just about anyone else offering up honing advice.

you can try circles @ ~45 deg heel leading , then toe leading then regular x-stroke, this worked for me several times when I had problems with toe or heel.
from the pic it seems that the heel is fairly worn out, the edge is pretty much cutting into the shoulder. What happens is right now you are honing the shoulder until it evens with the edge, then your heel will get sharp. What I found is that when you do angled circles with toe or heel leading you are taking care of those problematic areas and eventually you even them out with the middle of the blade, then regular x-stroke should take care of even sharpness on the entire edge. I think this technique(or very similar)is explained in the old barbers manual that Jimmy often refers to.

For the guys suggesting circles, 1K or 5K stone?

Originally Posted by BingoBango

For the guys suggesting circles, 1K or 5K stone?

You need to set your bevel along the whole length of the razor so 1k.

Originally Posted by BingoBango

For the guys suggesting circles, 1K or 5K stone?

Does your blade have a frown as commiecat suggested ? Taking another look at the photo it seems like it might. If it has a frown I would start at the 1k and if not the 5k and see if you need to go lower. You can always go to the 1k if the 5k doesn't appear to be doing it for you so give the 5 a shot first.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Does your blade have a frown as commiecat suggested ? Taking another look at the photo it seems like it might. If it has a frown I would start at the 1k and if not the 5k and see if you need to go lower. You can always go to the 1k if the 5k doesn't appear to be doing it for you so give the 5 a shot first.

No, there's no frown. I have to take these close ups using a jeweler's loupe in front of my digital camera to make it clear and it gives the slightest fisheye effect.

The blade is straight, so I'm not worried about that.

I guess 5K makes sense, and I'll probably magic marker test.

If I was to guess, I would say that it is because the breadknifing is decieving you. Breadknifing a razor will give you an even "edge" but it will not even out the razor. After breadknifing, if the wear on the razor was uneven, some parts will take longer to get to the bevel than other parts. If it is the toe and heal that are not set, you have two options (as I see it).

You can focus in on the toe and heal (rolling X or the rolling circles I talked about at the meet) - this may leave a bit of a smile on the razor, because you'll take more metal off the toe and heal.

You can keep up with normal strokes and remove the same amount of metal from the middle as the toe and heal. This will take a bit longer, but you'll end up with as straight edge.

Either way, you may wind up with funky, uneven bevels and/or spine wear, and either way you should get to a shaving edge. Personally, I couldn't recommend one over the other without seeing the razor in hand, and even then, it would just be my preference.

Originally Posted by mainaman

you can try circles @ ~45 deg heel leading , then toe leading then regular x-stroke, this worked for me several times when I had problems with toe or heel.
from the pic it seems that the heel is fairly worn out, the edge is pretty much cutting into the shoulder. What happens is right now you are honing the shoulder until it evens with the edge, then your heel will get sharp. What I found is that when you do angled circles with toe or heel leading you are taking care of those problematic areas and eventually you even them out with the middle of the blade, then regular x-stroke should take care of even sharpness on the entire edge. I think this technique(or very similar)is explained in the old barbers manual that Jimmy often refers to.

When the wind is blowing from the east hone from the south, if the sun comes out, then circle to the east, if it snows angle to 45 degrees from the angle of the sun, if it starts to rain, use camellia oiil. If you are confused, consult ...... never mind.....