Thread: Naniwa Hones - Need some Help !!!

Originally Posted by BrentonC

Greetings Gents,

I'm afraid this is installment #2 of the same complaint I've had before about honing with Naniwa 5k, 8k, and 12K hones.
....snip...
Please forgive any frustration that leaks through in my post.

A leak, eek -- calls for a styptic pencil.

Try this.
Starting with the fine one first, lap each hone just a little with your DMT
underwater in a bucket or the sink. No pencil grid, just a gentle lapping.
The order is just to eliminate transferring coarse grit to the fine hone with
the DMT, running water is OK. No soaking is needed as far as I know.

Using light strokes, hone with lap ratios that match the grit.
With one drop of dish soap in the bucket... rinse the hone
and...

N*5 laps on the 5k
N*8 laps on the 8k
N*12 laps on the 12K.

Start with N=2 i.e.

10 laps on the 5k
16 laps on the 8k
24 laps on the 12K.

Nice smooth deliberate laps angle the blade so the full width of
the blade and the hone match up. No "fancy" X strokes
unless the razor needs it.

Strop smoothly... and shave test.

If by "T-I" you mean Thier Issard, have no worry with your stone.

The first razor I got was i TI, and you could not get it sharp with my 8 K hone, despite many tries. But I was a beginner at honing then, and didnt have any pasted strops. I just went from the 8K to the strop.
The razor rested for over 2 years, before I picked it up and tried honing it again, this time I had more honing under my belt, I had a 12K Naniwa stone, and an SRD modular paddle with both cromium oxide and diamond spray. I finally got it sharp, to the point where I can comfortably shave with it.

My conclusion is, that the TI are just hard to hone. I dont know if this goes for all models though.

My advice is for you to get some cheap razors on ebay, to play around with on your hone.
You will find that razors are very different to hone, some get sharp fast, others are much more difficult to hone.

Dont throw away your stone or give up. You will learn honing, it just takes time and practice.

I've recently got a set of Naniwas (just waiting on the 5k), and I found when I lapped them that they went all speckly. I had a look here and found this thread on it, which also has some useful info on lapping Naniwas.

TBH, I have to agree with the other guys here and say it probably is technique. You'll find that with practice you start to get better results..! The Naniwa stones are really great I think, and I prefer the edges from them to the edges from my Shaptons, which feel a little harsher to me. Still very sharp, just harsher on the skin.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Who sharpened the razor before your attempts? I don't see any mention of how the bevel was originally set here. I usually start at the 1k with any new razor, unless I received it from an SRP honester.

Are you testing your edge after each grit? When you say that the razor winds up more dull than when you started, do you know at what point this happens? At the 5k, 8k or 12k? For reference, I'll shave my arm or leg hairs after each grit to see how it feels.

Last bit of advice that really helped me with technique was the marker test. Coat the edge of your razor with a Sharpie, do 3 or 4 strokes on the hone, and then look at your edge. You'll have a nice visual of how your edge is touching the stone -- metal means it's touching and marker means it isn't.

Honin' ain't easy so don't get discouraged. Well actually it's the learning part that was the most difficult for me, but still.

Hi,

I am not an experienced honer bay any means, but I had an opportuninty to sit down for a day with Lynn to learn honing. He is using Naniwas, although we just happened to a Norton that day.

I bought a full set of Naniwas, removed the lables (which was a real PITA), did the pencil grid and lapped them, and then with the instruction I was given, started honing. At this point, I have not had any problems generating a shave ready razor out of any of my stock, even with my limited experience.

One thing I can say is I was very surprised by how much pressure Lynn uses when setting the bevel. He uses a "tight circular" pattern he developed, and the whole table shook. I have never honed using pyramids, so I can't speak to that method. But, setting the bevel is the foundation of honing and is extremely important that you learn to set the bevel.

That is my 2 cents from a newbie honer that is getting great results with his Naniwas.

David

I would tend to agree with the previous posts. TI's are a rather difficult razor to begin learning to hone with. It has been my experience that they are even difficult to maintain a proper edge on the blade with diamond spray.

Just my 2 cents...

I changed the name of the thread, I hope no one minds...

Couple of things most of which has been said one that has not...

Stop lapping, the problem isn't the light coating anymore just go to your normal lapping and cleaning...

Learn the 1k, the trick to Naniwas seems to me to be the 1k, like any other honing the basis is in the bevel but with the Naniwas it is even more important because the stones cut so smooth all the way though the process, the tests that normally work in the middle are not quite as easy on these...

When I first got mine I honed the first razor two times because I thought the edge wasn't getting sharp... I finally just pushed on through to the 12k level even though it was failing many of my personal middle sharpness tests and Viola' a great shave test !!!

Now I have developed slightly different middle tests for the Naniwas...
Trust that the stones are doing their part you just have to do yours...
Oh and BTW the Naniwas are my goto set for TI razors they give a very comfortable edge on them...

'Morning fellows,

Thanks for so many helpful replies. I should formally enter a thank you reply to each of you. I'm pretty awed by how much you all know, and your generosity in helping me out here.

I'm determined to stick with this.

In response to a number of items that come up, I'm at work now, so can't recall which DMT thing I have, but it has a continuous surface. When Scott (local hone guy, and member of the forum) helped me out before he showed me he had a DMT like mine, and another one that had slots or grooves in it so as to remove material from the stone faster, iirc.

The razor is a 5/8 T-I with a smile shaped blade edge. The razor is truly a thing of beauty. It was supposed to be shave ready, according to info T-I told the vendor, but he warned me not to believe it.

I found it really pulled when I shaved with it (maybe the razor, maybe the technique?), but had Scott sharpen it for me and it was better. He said it was pretty close, but not shave ready.

So, I assumed the bevel was probably good from the start, even though it wasn't shave ready.

I'm interested and surprised to hear T-I razors can be difficult like this.

I do have an old beater of a razor bought from another member, so I think I really need to take all your advice and work with this one, because it's certainly accurate to say that I have not yet ever successfully honed a razor.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I changed the name of the thread, I hope no one minds...

, Glen - the gentle nudge, the "politesse" - no need to have a whole THREAD attacking Naniwa when it's really clearly just user error. [Head nod{ Good move.

Oh, yeah, I noticed that and thanks.

I don't remember if my original title was posted as a statement or a question, but either way . . . yeah, thanks.

Don't want Naniwa sending their superstone-sharpened catana wielding ninjas over to my place to demonstrate their products efficacy!