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  1. #1
    Senior Member ericm's Avatar
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    Default Can't get TI razor to hold an edge

    I've finally got my TI honed as sharp as my Dovo. Unfortunately, it only holds for about 4-5 passes on my face. Then I can feel it begin to drag a little. I finished my shave, but felt some burn. It was very sharp for a brief time though! :-) My procedure:

    1. Pyramid scheme on the 4/8k norton. Actually, I deviated pretty heavily from the pyramid and went back and forth for some time with more or less passes.
    2. Take about 50 passes on a clean linen strop. This seems to work well for me for both razors (my TI and my Dovo), skipping this step results in a pretty dragging razor.
    3. Take about 50 passes on a clean leather strop.

    Why is it losing its edge? What can I do to fix it?

    Thanks!
    Eric

  2. #2
    Super Shaver xman's Avatar
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    Default Over Stropping

    Sounds to me like you might be ruining your edge on the strop.

    First I think 50 passes on linen is overkill. 10 - 20 should do the trick. You just want to warm up the metal a little so it responds to the leather.

    I also feel that 50 passes on the leather is overkill. It shouldn't make too much difference unless your technique is off in which case it will make a HUGE difference.

    1. Hold that strop taught!
    2. Keep the blade gently in contact with the strop applying NO pressure and keeping as much of the blade as possible in contact with the strop at all times.
    3. GO SLOW! Precision is 100x more important than speed.

    X

  3. #3
    Senior Member ericm's Avatar
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    Default

    I will try using the strops less the next time.

    I've been reading lots of the other posts, and it seems that I still may not be doing things correctly on the honing. First, I still have not got my (TI) razor to pass the HHT directly from the hone, although it's close. I do the following modified version of the HHT: pass the razor above the hairs on my leg about 1cm above the skin. It catches some of the hairs and occasionaly will pop one. It always requires some use of the strop to acutally get lots of them.

    Does it really have to pass the HHT and cut every hair before using the strop?

  4. #4
      Lynn's Avatar
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    Default

    Try a 3-3, 1-3, 1-3 stroke progression on the Norton 4K/8K followed by about 20-30 strokes on the leather and and let us know what happens. Lynn

  5. #5
    Hones & Honing randydance062449's Avatar
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    Default

    1. I agree with Lynn.

    2. Use the HHT only after the fine stone, not after the strop.
    Most any dull razor will pass the HHT after using the strop.

    3. Today I performed 30 laps on the linen, 30 on the coarse leather and 30 on the finish leather, then shaved. It was very smooth and sharp. And I was not using a feather light touch either!

    You guys have to remember that the pasted strops, linen and plain leather strops will not make up for a dull razor. As boring as it may be you simply must stay on the hones until the razor is sharp.

    Hope this helps,
    Randolph Tuttle, a SRP Mentor for residents of Minnesota & western Wisconsin

  6. #6
    The Hurdy Gurdy Man thebigspendur's Avatar
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    Default

    Well as usual Lynn's posts are the shortest around here but he says more in them than most guys who go on for a page. I would take his advice.

    I do think 50x on linen is way too much. On leather you can hone to your hearts contentment I don't think its possible to overhone on smooth leather (well maybe if you do 1000 strokes) but 30, 60 80 -no problem.

    What concerns me more is that the razor seems to shave fine at first and then losses its edge midway through shaving. Usually sharp is sharp unless you really don't know what sharp is and you are actually shaving with a marginally sharp razor and its just deteriorating as you shave.

    Let us know what happens.
    No matter how many men you kill you can't kill your successor-Emperor Nero

  7. #7
    Senior Member ericm's Avatar
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    Default

    I did the 3-3, 1-3, 1-3 on the 4K/8K Norton, a total of 5 or 6 times. It just seemed that the razor was never getting any sharper. I was doing this at moderate pressure, and then easing off and using less pressure toward the end. Still I didn't see any improvement in the blade sharpness. Because there were several earlier posts about the TIs being more resilient, I finally tried heavier pressure. Much heavier than "just the weight of the blade". I was putting a small torque on the blade handle, and holding the back end (spine) with my thumb to keep it from turning up. When I did 5 passes on the 4K and followed with about 10 on the 8K, with gradually lessening pressure as I did the swipes for each stone, I finally got the razor to cut a few hairs with the HHT. I felt, however, that I was using way too much pressure. I tried shaving, and it still was not satisfactory, so I went back to lighter pressure, and then the blade went back to being very poor.

    Note: I prepared the stones very carefully according to Brian Donofrio's videos, and they are extremely flat. I also have had no problem honing my Dovo, which is shaving great. I think it's related to the hardness of this particular TI razor.

    When honing, should the metal left behind on the hone look uniform? i.e., I assume that if you see only one big streak in the middle of the stone, that the stone is not flat or the blade is not true. This may be of particular importance to me!

    Anyhow, I'll go back to using heavy pressure on the blade... unless you would advise against that or have some other suggestions.

    Suggestions please!!

    Thanks,
    Eric

  8. #8
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    Default

    I think momentarily you had the right idea but need work on your technique. There shouldn't be any need to return to heavy pressure. Once you've applied that pressure and began easing up you should have a blade thats close. It sounds like the 8k is giving you a hard time. If it were me I would relap it a touch to remove all the metal, clean it with a scrub brush and try really light passes with lather on the blade and sweeping motions with 10 passes on 8K and see if that gets any better. Then return to Lynns method if that fails. Using a 8K is tough and it takes a while to learn on. For me I had to try it without soaking (just water) and with lather to get where I wanted it. I know others can get a razor shaving with only the 8k side, but I think it takes practice. Most likely your not using a technique that ensures the blade stays flat. Make sure your wrist stays stationary on both passes, it should not roll at all.

    You also may want to back hone (on 8k) and try 8k again without a lot of pressure, I recommend enough to keep the razor flat and then just a touch more. You'll need to use enough strokes to get back to really sharp but you may have a misaligned bevel from unequal pressure.

    You'll get some better ideas too, you may want to return to a 1/3 routine or you may even want to use a circular motion and start all over again. If you've got a messed up bevel it may be tough. Another option is to use only 1/2 the 8k stone, much easier to run a 1/2 lap then a full lap. At this point I would be using a X pattern, is that what your doing?
    Last edited by AFDavis11; 03-16-2006 at 08:56 AM.

  9. #9
    Super Shaver xman's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ericm
    When honing, should the metal left behind on the hone look uniform? i.e., I assume that if you see only one big streak in the middle of the stone, that the stone is not flat or the blade is not true. This may be of particular importance to me!
    It's possible you're not working the whole blade. Many blades, even new ones and even ones that are called 'flat' have a slight smile or curve to them. You need to roll the contact with the hone from heel to toe ever so slightly as you progress along the hone to make sure you get the whole edge.

    X

  10. #10
    Senior Member ericm's Avatar
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    Default

    To address the last two posts:

    I'll try to quantify what I mean by 'heavy' pressure. Perhaps a pound, maybe two at the most, when I did the 'heavy' swipes. I was careful not to use too many. At any rate, it still made me feel uneasy using that much pressure, as it was way more than I needed for my Dovo. But I guess the steel is just harder on this blade.

    As for the X-pattern. I have a 3 inch wide Norton. I'm very uneasy about doing the x-pattern where I move the blade down the stone and off it at the same time, since I'm worried about lifting the blade and getting an uneven swipe. Instead I rotate the blade in the plane of the hone so that it is still flat on the hone, but I can still run down the whole stone without any part of the blade moving off it. This should be the same cutting effect as the x-pattern. In that sense I use the x-pattern. However, this means that if the stone is not exactly flat, some parts of the blade will not be honed!

    From the feel I'm getting off the hones, I do agree the 8K is the one giving me the hard time. The 4K feels right, and the metal left behind on the 4K looks uniform. The metal left behind on the 8K side does not look entirely uniform. It's not as bad as a big streak down the middle or anything. But it's much more uniform if I use some pressure, but that's what I'm trying to avoid. I think I will take your advice and re-flatten it on plate glass, and relap it and try again. Maybe it's just not quite flat enough.

    I've also noticed that the debris left behind after lapping makes the stone cut faster. Is this something that should be utilized or avoided?

    Thanks for all the advice so far. Hopefully I'm almost there!

    Eric

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