Thread: Dissapearing Edge

Originally Posted by mparker762

Is your body chemistry acidic?
....snip...
What seems to minimize this degradation is to rinse the blade edge-up under the hot water for several minutes, then strop thoroughly on the linen side of the strop, then oil it well. And I tend to use the same razor day after day so it's always getting cleaned and stropped and I can keep an eye on it as it degrades.

How well dressed is the leather strop?

Some strop dressings contain tallow or neatsfoot oil and
either will minimize corrosion. Older razor texts had
folk running the edge along a tallow candle if the razor
was to be put up for very long.

A fast four or five stroke visit to canvas followed by leather
can clean then effectively oil the edge. It does nothing special
for the large bright shiny polished surfaces but it
does touch the sharp edge. This is one case for
stropping after shaving. Your shave tests will let you
know...

Originally Posted by randydance062449

If the edge was "craggy" under the microscope and it was a vintage blade that means that you never removed the old, oxidised, weak edge in the first go round on the hones. You may need to go back to that level to get a durable edge.

Removing the weak, old edge is fundamental to developing a strong, new bevel. Pay real close attention if your using a microscope but if your not then may I suggest a minimum of 50 laps on a 1000 grit sanpaper and most likely 100 laps. Sometimes more.
If your using a Norton 1000 then it will take more since it is not as aggressive as sandpaper.

It was a vintage blade, and I am pretty sure you are correct.

I have never honed on sandpaper before. Do you recommend tape on the spine for this? Also, what kind of strokes do you do on it?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Alembic

It was a vintage blade, and I am pretty sure you are correct.

I have never honed on sandpaper before. Do you recommend tape on the spine for this? Also, what kind of strokes do you do on it?

Thanks.

Glue the sandpaper down on a flat scrap of wood.
It needs to be absolutely flat, a good scrap wood
to look for is flooring, but any flat surface even plywood
or tile will work . Then use it like a rock hone.

You can also pick up a granite or marble tile (say 12"x12")
and glue your abrasive paper to it. 3M wet dry paper is
a good choice for paper.

Slightly better are PSA abrasive films... most are also 3M products...
If there is a Woodcraft store near by grab a pack of the abrasive film
that they have. Look for #147769 Honing Film Assort Pack - 3 Pieces
The 15micron abrasive film is an equivalent of 1200 Grit US, or 1000 grit
in Japanese Whetstone grit classification. It is PSA backed (pressure
sensitive adhesive) and on a 12x12 granite tile will do a fine job.

I happen to like abrasive film when recovering a neglected razor
because it is flat from start to finish. Working all the way down
to the 0.3 micron film results in an edge that is a bit too sharp
but a visit to CrOx on a hanging canvas strop softens that....

Niftyshaving summarized it pretty well.

The PSA film would be an excellent idea. I normally use plain 3M wet/dry but I never tape it down.

Tape?.....yes, one layer for sure when your using the 1000 grit sandpaper.
At that grit level steel is removed pretty fast.
I use a heel leading rolling X stroke.

I have a slightly different opinion I suppose. If you are not used to sandpaper[ there is no good time to start.

A 1000k, especially norton should be quite enough. I have observed this on every vintage blade; but very few-maybe none that only made one shave. usually three or four.

was it especially patina'd? For me it was simply more practice; so I resharpened the blade from 1 to finish and gradually the time between sharpening improved-say after 3 resets it would take and hold a good edge.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

How are you cleaning the razor?

Are you using a strop and if so what strop, pasted strops?

I would review my use of a strop if I had this situation.
It is almost as if you have an ultra fine edge that
is getting rolled. A paddle strop or news paper on scrap
lumber might be worth a try.

Since there are 50 posts in front of me one odd thing
to pay attention to is scale rot from one bad apple in
a box of razors. Ventilation and a dry place is a good thing
if that is related.

Niftyshaving,

I use scalding hot water, wipe down the razor with a clean towel, wrap the towel over the top of a spoon handle and clean between the scales, then 25 laps on my fabric strop, then wipe with a clean tissue, then oil and put the razor back.

I have no scales that have scale rot. They are all clean and sound.

Thanks for the input.

David

Originally Posted by mparker762

Is your body chemistry acidic? Most metals corrode very quickly in contact with my skin.

The reason I ask, is because I experience something very like your phenomenon with my own razors. I believe the edge is degrading in storage because of residual acids on the blade that are nearly impossible to get rid of. If I just hone the razor and oil it and put it away then the edge will be fine for a long time.

Several times now I've repeated an experiment where I took two similar razors (same make and model) and honed them to the same level of sharpness. Then I shave with both, one half of my face with each one. One of them is cleaned and oiled and put away, the other is used every day for the next week. Then I pull them both out, strop, and use them again to get a good comparison. Typically the razor I put away after one use is in comparable or worse shape than the one I was using and stropping every day.

What seems to minimize this degradation is to rinse the blade edge-up under the hot water for several minutes, then strop thoroughly on the linen side of the strop, then oil it well. And I tend to use the same razor day after day so it's always getting cleaned and stropped and I can keep an eye on it as it degrades.

Ok, that's a new one on me. I don't think this is the problem. I have honed many razors, used many razors over a period of months and have onle had this problen with a couple of them.

But I do use scalding hot water to clean the blade following shaving, and then 25 laps on my fabric strop. I will pay atttention to this.

Thanks,
David

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Glue the sandpaper down on a flat scrap of wood.
It needs to be absolutely flat, a good scrap wood
to look for is flooring, but any flat surface even plywood
or tile will work . Then use it like a rock hone.

You can also pick up a granite or marble tile (say 12"x12")
and glue your abrasive paper to it. 3M wet dry paper is
a good choice for paper.

Slightly better are PSA abrasive films... most are also 3M products...
If there is a Woodcraft store near by grab a pack of the abrasive film
that they have. Look for #147769 Honing Film Assort Pack - 3 Pieces
The 15micron abrasive film is an equivalent of 1200 Grit US, or 1000 grit
in Japanese Whetstone grit classification. It is PSA backed (pressure
sensitive adhesive) and on a 12x12 granite tile will do a fine job.

I happen to like abrasive film when recovering a neglected razor
because it is flat from start to finish. Working all the way down
to the 0.3 micron film results in an edge that is a bit too sharp
but a visit to CrOx on a hanging canvas strop softens that....

That is great information. How about the spine? Any special care there?

David

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Niftyshaving summarized it pretty well.

The PSA film would be an excellent idea. I normally use plain 3M wet/dry but I never tape it down.

Tape?.....yes, one layer for sure when your using the 1000 grit sandpaper.
At that grit level steel is removed pretty fast.
I use a heel leading rolling X stroke.

Thanks - that is what I needed to know. I have many more vintage razors to go through. I will look at the edge under the microscope and am pretty sure I will find the same thing. I have some granite left from a project and I think it will be perfect for this.

David

Originally Posted by kevint

I have a slightly different opinion I suppose. If you are not used to sandpaper[ there is no good time to start.

A 1000k, especially norton should be quite enough. I have observed this on every vintage blade; but very few-maybe none that only made one shave. usually three or four.

was it especially patina'd? For me it was simply more practice; so I resharpened the blade from 1 to finish and gradually the time between sharpening improved-say after 3 resets it would take and hold a good edge.

kevinint,

It was not especially patina'd, but I did not do my due diligence and look at the blade under my microscope before I started. So I really cannot tell what I began with.

I am positive that more practice is required, I certainly don't have hundreds of razors under my belt.

David