Thread: Diagnose: Sharp but not smooth

Originally Posted by gary haywood

i would second that ti rasoir paste will transform that edge .yes my ti silver wing does feel differant . mine is finished on coticule and is very smooth but differant. i use d the ti paste when i was struggling to get the smoothness and it works a treat , i use it on canvas strop and the rsults are very good. other than that i would try 15 back and forth strokes followed by 30 light strokes in normal x on coticule . i must admit it took me a while to get a good edge of mt silver wing and my ti la grelot . once i did they shave very well .

I have a plain c135 on order with Martin. Once he gets back from vacation, I will ask him to throw in the paste. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

Some of the things that stand out here to me...

1. What progression did you use to get to the finishers????

2. Why two stones to finish???

3. Both finishing stones you are using should be more than capable of producing comfortable shaves by themselves...

4. The fact that you are finding it "necessary" to use two finishers hints that you don't find the initial finish of either stone to be enough.. Which IME tells me that the initial bevel set - sharpen - polishing, progression is lacking...

5. One piece of honing advice you often see is that if your 8k level of honing (regardless of what that is) does not produce a good shave then more stones and more pastes are just a crutch.. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but it tends to be the truth...

6. TI's can be finicky on the bevel set, but IME I haven't ever noticed anything different about them in the higher grits...


Hope at least some of that helps...

+1 to this. Looking back on what I have went through...

1) If the razor is "sharp", but not smooth. You probably did not do enough work on the stones and used the pastes to try and cheat a bit.

2) I even made a thread about this... Put away all your finishing stones and pastes. Just shave off your 8k for awhile. Once you reach a point where you are getting good shaves off your 8k, you probably will not have this "sharp, but not smooth" problem any more.

3) I still consider myself a novice, take my advice with a grain of salt. I hone less razors in a month that a lot of people do here in a day.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Some of the things that stand out here to me...

5. One piece of honing advice you often see is that if your 8k level of honing (regardless of what that is) does not produce a good shave then more stones and more pastes are just a crutch.. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but it tends to be the truth...


Hope at least some of that helps...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Some of the things that stand out here to me...

1. What progression did you use to get to the finishers????

2. Why two stones to finish???

3. Both finishing stones you are using should be more than capable of producing comfortable shaves by themselves...

4. The fact that you are finding it "necessary" to use two finishers hints that you don't find the initial finish of either stone to be enough.. Which IME tells me that the initial bevel set - sharpen - polishing, progression is lacking...

5. One piece of honing advice you often see is that if your 8k level of honing (regardless of what that is) does not produce a good shave then more stones and more pastes are just a crutch.. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, but it tends to be the truth...

6. TI's can be finicky on the bevel set, but IME I haven't ever noticed anything different about them in the higher grits...


Hope at least some of that helps...

Thanks for the reply. I did not do the initial honing, however Martin did and he did a good job. After about 10-15 shaves the razor started to dull and I wanted to work with finishers and that is how I got here. At the end of the day, I decided to start over with a Dilucot. At the end of the Dilucot I noticed a couple of things. First, the edge is very, very delicate. I noticed a very small chip after the final pass on the Coticule.

The razor shaves very well and I only did 5 passes on CrOx beyond Bart's Dilucot. What my guess is is that the razor angle is very narrow. The spine width is 5/8 but the width from the edge to the honing flat is wider than my other 5/8ths. My guess is that the edge is a tad on the thin side and that led to some deformation and why I could not get a smooth shave after some time on the razor. I need to haul out the micrometer and run the measurements through the angle algorithm. I think the edge angle is just wide enough to last a few shaves, but not wide enough to really hold up. More to come on this one.

Originally Posted by bonusmarple

Yes! Thank you.

Blade in that pic is slightly overhoned. Pic is around 200x. The wire & serrations are small & not so obvious to the naked eye but obvious to the face I'm guessing too many strokes around 8k & upwards.
As with yours it shaved very close but not comfortably.

Edit: Oh I see you used a coti. So much for not being able to overehone with a Coti.
Tho the edge may be a "tad thin" The "less is more" theory may be applicable also.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Blade in that pic is slightly overhoned. Pic is around 200x. The wire & serrations are small & not so obvious to the naked eye but obvious to the face I'm guessing too many strokes around 8k & upwards.
As with yours it shaved very close but not comfortably.

Edit: Oh I see you used a coti. So much for not being able to overehone with a Coti.
Tho the edge may be a "tad thin" The "less is more" theory may be applicable also.

I used a combo of coti and thuringian. It was one of the timber tools thuringians so I might have overhoned with that vs the coti.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

+1 to this. Looking back on what I have went through...

1) If the razor is "sharp", but not smooth. You probably did not do enough work on the stones and used the pastes to try and cheat a bit.

2) I even made a thread about this... Put away all your finishing stones and pastes. Just shave off your 8k for awhile. Once you reach a point where you are getting good shaves off your 8k, you probably will not have this "sharp, but not smooth" problem any more.

3) I still consider myself a novice, take my advice with a grain of salt. I hone less razors in a month that a lot of people do here in a day.

The more I think about this the more I am guessing why my Dilucot works more. Effectively I am spending more time with a high grit stone.

maertin sent me a ti legrelot and he does an amazing job at honing . he finishes the edge on 10k naniwa and he starts with coticule . bart always hones his ti's on one layer of o.15 electrical tape using unicot he then adds another layer of tape to perform unicot edge . he says aftyer a thew shaves the edge is delicate , btittle and the edge chips very easily. unicot adds strenght to the edge . why don't you try unicot as mentioned i have and it realy worked and does'nt take long set bevel on one layer of tape then add another layer and do 20 laps on misty slurry and 60 laps on water nice light laps . bart says this alters the angle and makes for strong bevel and you get no chips etc. other than that do dilucot and then ti paste if you prefer traditional bevel.

if you take a look on ebay uk under razor strop you will see some little green pkts of ti paste it only £4

[QUOTE=gary haywood;630791] bart always hones his ti's on one layer of o.15 electrical tape using unicot he then adds another layer of tape to perform unicot edge . he says aftyer a thew shaves the edge is delicate , btittle and the edge chips very easily. unicot adds strenght to the edge . why don't you try unicot as mentioned i have and it realy worked and does'nt take long set bevel on one layer of tape then add another layer and do 20 laps on misty slurry and 60 laps on water nice light laps . bart says this alters the angle and makes for strong bevel and you get no chips etc. other than that do dilucot and then ti paste if you prefer traditional bevel.[QUOTE]





What is the difference????

I have read this over and over from Bart and others BTW, and honestly this has always bugged me... What is the difference, if I add a piece of tape at the end or add them at the beginning????
You and others are essentially saying that the .50-.75 of a degree change from one piece of tape is going to change the edge enough to make it stronger???? you are talking here about micron differences on the bevel...

When actual angle measurments on real razors range from 12 degrees to 25 degrees... This doesn't really make sense then does it???? In fact some razors the bevel angle actually changes from heel to toe...

Now if this were true and proved why do so many people swear by NO TAPE at all on razors. if the edge is made stronger by adding 1 layer on top of one other, what is the difference between one layer and none????

So what difference would it make to the edge of the razor if I started with two layers, or started with one, then only added the second for the last few laps the angle at the edge is the same....
Or used just 1 or 3 or 4 see what I am asking???

I think you all are deluding yourselves by thinking it is the tape and angle when it is actually the fact that you are taking your time and finishing the razor correctly....


My 2 pence


Gary, no offense intended to you at all, if it works then more power to ya, but I think it is working for another reason then what you are thinking....

[QUOTE=gssixgun;630814][QUOTE=gary haywood;630791] bart always hones his ti's on one layer of o.15 electrical tape using unicot he then adds another layer of tape to perform unicot edge . he says aftyer a thew shaves the edge is delicate , btittle and the edge chips very easily. unicot adds strenght to the edge . why don't you try unicot as mentioned i have and it realy worked and does'nt take long set bevel on one layer of tape then add another layer and do 20 laps on misty slurry and 60 laps on water nice light laps . bart says this alters the angle and makes for strong bevel and you get no chips etc. other than that do dilucot and then ti paste if you prefer traditional bevel.

What is the difference????

I have read this over and over from Bart and others BTW, and honestly this has always bugged me... What is the difference, if I add a piece of tape at the end or add them at the beginning????
You and others are essentially saying that the .50-.75 of a degree change from one piece of tape is going to change the edge enough to make it stronger???? you are talking here about micron differences on the bevel...

When actual angle measurments on real razors range from 12 degrees to 25 degrees... This doesn't really make sense then does it???? In fact some razors the bevel angle actually changes from heel to toe...

Now if this were true and proved why do so many people swear by NO TAPE at all on razors. if the edge is made stronger by adding 1 layer on top of one other, what is the difference between one layer and none????

So what difference would it make to the edge of the razor if I started with two layers, or started with one, then only added the second for the last few laps the angle at the edge is the same....
Or used just 1 or 3 or 4 see what I am asking???

I think you all are deluding yourselves by thinking it is the tape and angle when it is actually the fact that you are taking your time and finishing the razor correctly....


My 2 pence


Gary, no offense intended to you at all, if it works then more power to ya, but I think it is working for another reason then what you are thinking....

I believe "The Glen" nailed it!