Thread: A question for the Honemeisters

I'm not very experienced at honiong razors, but I've honed the vast majority of my own and see little difference between mine, and those from a Pro, so I haven't done too badly.
But, I've noticed that when setting a bevel, I always need a few extra strokes on one side, always the same side, to keep the bevel as well centered as possible.
It's always on the return stroke that needs more work. To counteract this, I've started adding 10% to the return strokes... i.e. if I do 10 laps, I do one extra return stroke.
I suppose it makes sense that the stroke out, and the stroke in could be a bit different. After all, we're human and not machines, but I'm interested to learn if others have also noticed a difference between "out" strokes and "in" strokes... And what have you done to compensate to keep the bevel well centered??

Or is it just me???

BTW, I add 10% to all the grits... Not just the bevel setter.

Try turning your hone 90 degrees and doing your stroke side to side rather than forward and back. The different action may equalize the pressure on both sides.

I don't know if this will fix what is happening with your stroke but it can't hurt to try.

That's odd. I've never heard it before. Maybe someone else has. Is this one razor, or on all your razors. Is it possible your using a bit more pressure on your first stroke? and subsquent "first" strokes....? Am I understanding correctly....?

I am no honemeister, but it's pretty clear that you are either using more pressure on the away stroke or the stroke length is shorter on the return stroke.

Work on making sure your strokes are consistent in both directions.

What are you using to decide that the bevels are not even? Their respective widths?

Lots of razors, particularly older ones, don't have equal width bevels. In fact, I would suggest hardly any would be mathematically perfect.

How big a difference are you seeing? It might not be you at all, it could just be the grinds on your blades.

James.

If this happens with all your razors I'd say it's just the way your holding the razor as you make your strokes. If it only happens on the one then I'd say it was the grind or the original bevel was off and needs to be reset.

Originally Posted by BlacknTan

I'm not very experienced at honiong razors, but I've honed the vast majority of my own and see little difference between mine, and those from a Pro, so I haven't done too badly.
But, I've noticed that when setting a bevel, I always need a few extra strokes on one side, always the same side, to keep the bevel as well centered as possible.
It's always on the return stroke that needs more work. To counteract this, I've started adding 10% to the return strokes... i.e. if I do 10 laps, I do one extra return stroke.
I suppose it makes sense that the stroke out, and the stroke in could be a bit different. After all, we're human and not machines, but I'm interested to learn if others have also noticed a difference between "out" strokes and "in" strokes... And what have you done to compensate to keep the bevel well centered??

Or is it just me???

BTW, I add 10% to all the grits... Not just the bevel setter.

If you are able to see that the bevel is off center after you set the bevel and it wasn't off center before you started you are doing something wrong in a major way. Unless there is a major chip in the edge or a large frown you should be setting the bevel on a 1 or 4k hone. At that grit it would take an awful lot of laps to offset the bevel to one side even if you were using enough pressure to move a house.

I guess I need more info from you to assist. What brand razors are you honing? Where did you purchase them from? What hones are you using to set the bevel with in grit and manufacturer/type (Norton, Coti, BBW, Naniwa)?

Most of the razors I hone are from antique shops and other local places. Some are warped, some have been bounced around, some chipped, you get the idea. Some are just fine and just need to be refreshed but most have uneven wear on the edge. I start with a TNT to see where the edge is before I start. If it's like a butter knife I start on the 1k if there is no other damage. I cover the bevel with marker and do 10 back and forth strokes and check the bevel by eye to see where the marker has been removed. If it is removed evenly I continue. If not there is a problem with the blade that I need to identify before I continue but that is for another post.

Let's take the antique shop find with a butter knife edge scenario with the marker removed evenly for this example. I have found that when the edge is worn this far down that by just doing strokes some of the edge comes into sharp before other parts and if I do laps until the entire edge is sharp the parts of the edge that were sharp first develop a wire edge. This is why I don't do laps and the fact that I would be counting till the cows come home and beyond. I do circles and I do it for a clock count of 30 seconds per side, then 20 circles to break the burrs, then ten laps. TNT again and it is probably still a butter knife unless it is something like a Dubl Duck. If it's still a butter knife I up the clock count to 1 minute per side in circles. Remember this is a 1k hone and I try to keep the rhythm the same for each side. Back to the 20 circles and ten laps. I do this until the TNT shows the edge has been developed over the entire length of the bevel. From this point I move to arm hair tests.

Now you can see that there is no way the number of circles I do on each side are exactly the same. I have not seen that my bevels are off center enough to notice and I have honed a bunch of blades and some that were bread knifed or the like. A 1k hone does not usually remove enough metal quickly enough to move the bevel off center in a visible manor much less by a 10% difference in stroke counts per side.

Also the mention about turning the stone in an earlier post is a good idea. While I don't rotate the hone a full 90 degrees I do rotate it enough for my strokes to be as natural as possible and eliminate the reaching away from my body. Same for stropping.

Hope you can work this out because the bevel being off center sounds like a major honing issue.

Also I noticed that you are in NYS! We are having a meet this coming weekend and have had people come from LI, Utica, NYC area, PA., Ohio and the like. We do have a guest room that we offer long distance travelers and there are some motels/hotels in the general area. Here is a link to the meet thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/get-t...-wny-meet.html Drop me a PM if you are interested. We will be able to help you through this issue a lot better than in posts.

Good luck

Hi,

+1 on Jimbos' observations; I have a Wapi, whose bevel is most wavy & inconsistent in width side to side. The edge is fine and straight, and as that is what I shave with the wonky bevel it doesn't cause me any loss of sleep

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Perhaps I did a poor job of representing the problem, if there is one.

It's just not as bad as all that... Maybe I'm too much in search of perfection. I'm dealing with e-bay specials, so the bevels are usually poorly centered, at least to my mind... Certainly not near enough to make any difference whatsoever in the shave, but i have noticed that in trying to equalize the bevel as much as possible, the "back" side always needs more work. Coincidence?? Maybe, and it doesn't happen with all of them.

My only point is, that there must be some, no matter how minute, difference in the forestroke, and the return stroke... Maybe it's just me.

As I said, my results thus far have been faar better than I ever expected... Maybe just a bit of razor "esoterica..."

I have other esoteric ideas on soaps and things that I've noticed, but maybe I'm too far out of the mainstream. Possibly just things that I notice that may or may not have any basis in fact, but subtle differences that I see.

I'll just plod along at my own pace, and make like everything is cool...

Thanks for the thoughts.