Thread: X stroke question

Maybe I am over thinking this, it tends to be my habit. But watching videos of honing with the X stroke it occurs to me that half the blade, from heel to the center, spends less time on the stone than the other half, from center to toe.
I think the X stroke is for trying to establish a micro serration along the edge, but couldn't this be accomplished by angling the blade and going straight down the stone, leading with the heel?
Could the x stroke uneven wear be the reason I see so many vintage blades that are much wider at the heel than at the toe?
Doesn't this also cause the stone to wear unevenly?

Any responses are welcome.
Thank you in advance.

Quite often a straight razor, especially old ones, are not totally straight. So when you lay them on the hone on one side the heel and toe touch the stone, and when you flip the blade over only the centre touches. Doing an X stroke corrects for that and ensures that the entire edge makes contact with the stone.

Hones wear as you use them and again doing the X stroke allows for that wear by ensuring that all parts of the blade contact all parts of the stone at some point.

There have been cases in the past where people have tried honing just going up and down the hone and have had no luck getting an edge sharp, or have ended up with an irregular edge with dull spots. I remember very clearly not long after I joined a guy saying that as soon as he started doing X strokes the problems went away.

Another guy religiously stuck to the "No X strokes" ethos and eventually gave up on straight razors, convinced that both the hones and the razor were low quality which is why they wouldnt sharpen. Heaven forbid that he was doing something wrong on the hones..!

You shouldnt be creating any serrations or burrs on a straight razor, thats a knife sharpening technique. I can understand the theory of how if you magnify the edge thousands of times it eventually will look like a very fine saw blade with teeth the size of the last micron size you honed with, but thats not the aim of honing. Its a progressive approach going from a low grit to a high grit to end up with a very fine, ultra sharp, ultra smooth edge but without ever creating a burr like you do with a knife.

In terms of vintage blades having uneven wear, that'll more than likely be due to a previous owner applying uneven pressure whilst honing, or using too much pressure or both!

I guess in a nutshell, people use the X stroke because its consistent and it works!

Hope thats of some help!

Originally Posted by souschefdude

... I think the X stroke is for trying to establish a micro serration along the edge, but couldn't this be accomplished by angling the blade and going straight down the stone, leading with the heel?...

There are situations that call for specific strokes and methods. But, speaking generally, there is seldom only one way or stroke that will work.

Interestingly, several weeks ago I read an old barbers manual that recommended using the stroke you mentioned, underlined above, as the main stroke.

Was that the 1905 manual that was posted here at SRP? I read that too. Probably what got me thinking about it. I think that is also where I read about the small serrations. Some of what I read in that book contradicts what I have read here. I am not saying either is right or wrong, just trying to think it through.

[QUOTE=Stubear;668144]Quite often a straight razor, especially old ones, are not totally straight. So when you lay them on the hone on one side the heel and toe touch the stone, and when you flip the blade over only the centre touches. Doing an X stroke corrects for that and ensures that the entire edge makes contact with the stone. QUOTE]

It seems that if this is true you could only make contact while at the edge of the stone, and while viloating the cardinal rule of keeping the blade flat.


[QUOTE=Stubear;668144]You shouldnt be creating any serrations or burrs on a straight razor, thats QUOTE]
I know that burrs are forbidden, I didn't mention them. But I know I have read about the serrations before, just not sure where.

The X stroke will put uneven wear on the razor. It happens every time the person honing uses uneven pressure or lifts the razor when performing the stroke. That having been said, we know that there is no human being alive who cannot do the X stroke properly, so naturally the stroke itself or the stones are clearly at fault. The world today is very similar to 1905. We really have not come that far................

Have fun,

Lynn

Originally Posted by souschefdude

Was that the 1905 manual that was posted here at SRP? I read that too...

I don't remember which manual. But, it doesn't matter. And, it wasn't quoted as authoritative. Only to indicate that your question about use of a different stroke was not laughable.

You will hear contradictions here. Barbers manuals contradict. A good friend of mine told me something interesting some months ago. He disagreed with one of my honing methods, but then said that one of the most important ingredients in successful honing was confidence.

Odd! But, I think true. There are many ways to get to a great edge. Synthesize your method from all our sometimes contradictory advice.

I see your point, and it's valid, but I too feel the wear on the blade does not come from the X stroke, it comes from uneven pressure being placed on the blade, like Lynn stated above... at least the more prevalent wear on the toe you speak of. I, like many others here use a variety of strokes while honing.
The X stroke, The back stroke and little circles, for starters. You can most certainly lead with the toe and bring the razor down the hone. I believe it's the variety of strokes that helps give me that shave ready edge....

Originally Posted by Stubear

There have been cases in the past where people have tried honing just going up and down the hone and have had no luck getting an edge sharp, or have ended up with an irregular edge with dull spots. I remember very clearly not long after I joined a guy saying that as soon as he started doing X strokes the problems went away.

Another guy religiously stuck to the "No X strokes" ethos and eventually gave up on straight razors, convinced that both the hones and the razor were low quality which is why they wouldnt sharpen. Heaven forbid that he was doing something wrong on the hones..!

I remember that "another guy." He started a thread about how the X-stroke was unnecessary and inefficient.. I tried to explain it. Lynn explained it. Others explained it. He was right. Then he started several threads complaining that he could not get his razors sharp. Many more advised him to use the x-stroke. I engaged in several PMs with him. I offered to send him a couple of honed razors. I offered to hone a couple of his razors for him for free. Nothing made a difference because he was right.

Occasionally individuals do come up with novel ideas on this forum and may even go against the "collective wisdom," but there is no point in a beginner going against what has been learned over the past few hundred years without at least trying it first.

Originally Posted by Lynn

The X stroke will put uneven wear on the razor. It happens every time the person honing uses uneven pressure or lifts the razor when performing the stroke. That having been said, we know that there is no human being alive who cannot do the X stroke properly, so naturally the stroke itself or the stones are clearly at fault. The world today is very similar to 1905. We really have not come that far................

Thanks for clarifying that for all of us!

Circles, back and forth strokes, and x strokes work real well for me for setting bevels. Following the bevel set the x stroke is the best way I've found for sharpening and finishing. It's working so I'm not going to fix it.