Thread: Coticule after 12K?

I have heard somewhere the suggestion that after the 12K hone, whether Chinese or Naniwa, that the coticule will still make for a smoother edge. On the other hand, I hear the typical coticule said to be approximately comparable to an 8K-10K stone.

So...is there a case for going from a 12K finishing stone to the coticule?

Gentlemen, your arguments and experiences pro and con please!

Some, but very few IME are comparable to 10-12K ish levels. I have had 5 different cotis and only 1 is near (but not quite) an Escher. What may happen with some cotis, is that they smooth out any harshness from a Nani 12k, and although I do not have one myself, I have felt the edge of a 12K and liked it alot, so theres probably little point.

IIRC I have read Lynn say few stones including Eschers beat 12K Nani, or something along those lines, do not quote me exactly!

Bottom line, I cant imagine many cotis would ameliorate a Nani 12Ks edge, but thats only my opinion, others I am sure differ!

Sorry to be vague, but the Chinese hone is not 12k and the finish you get off of it varies by the individual piece of rock you acquire. This applies to your particular coticule as well. You're going to have to experiment with your own rocks, because the only one of the three that is predictable is the Naniwa 12k. This is because, for the most part, your Naniwa 12k is similar to my Naniwa 12k, but your coticule versus my coticule...

Originally Posted by Scipio

Some, but very few IME are comparable to 10-12K ish levels. I have had 5 different cotis and only 1 is near (but not quite) an Escher. What may happen with some cotis, is that they smooth out any harshness from a Nani 12k, and although I do not have one myself, I have felt the edge of a 12K and liked it alot, so theres probably little point.

IIRC I have read Lynn say few stones including Eschers beat 12K Nani, or something along those lines, do not quote me exactly!

Bottom line, I cant imagine many cotis would ameliorate a Nani 12Ks edge, but thats only my opinion, others I am sure differ!

Originally Posted by Utopian

Sorry to be vague, but the Chinese hone is not 12k and the finish you get off of it varies by the individual piece of rock you acquire. This applies to your particular coticule as well. You're going to have to experiment with your own rocks, because the only one of the three that is predictable is the Naniwa 12k. This is because, for the most part, your Naniwa 12k is similar to my Naniwa 12k, but your coticule versus my coticule...

I would be agreement here...

I come off the 8k level when I finish with any Natural, I want something there to "improve" on... That doesn't sound right but I think the meaning is there...


Edit:

What I mean is IMHO the 8k level is the entry level into shaving sharp, you should be able to comfortably shave of a Norton, Naniwa, or Shapton 8k so this leaves a bit of room to "finish" the edge on a natural stone...
The Naniwa 12k is a "finisher" in it own right, so basically you are re-finishing or perhaps even un-finishing the edge going to a Coticule... Hope that clarified it a bit

What it would do after a Chinese stone, is a best guess, like Ron said both stones are naturals, so only you would know, and even if it worked it would not be repeatable for everyone...

From what I have read the general saying is that the coti edge is not sharper but smoother than the 12k.

From my experience I know that some razors I have were first honed up to a 10-12k on synthetics. For me the edge was sharp but not smooth. After a few laps on my coti it would smooth out the harsh edge and give me smooth shaves.

Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I have heard somewhere the suggestion that after the 12K hone, whether Chinese or Naniwa, that the coticule will still make for a smoother edge.

I think it could happen.
You mean smoother edge You don't mean sharper edge.?
you can dull the edge and make it smoother .
Smoother and sharper will be different conversation.
gl

If you have come to enjoy a coticule edge I think there could be some "improvement". This is usually the case when an edge feels harsh (or too sharp or whatever - not trying to start a debate over semantics here); a few laps on a coticule can go a long way toward smoothing out an edge.

Think of it as the best of both worlds. A level of sharpness that is perhaps more than a coti alone can achieve combined with coti smoothness - sounds good to me.

There's a big difference between smooth sharpness and smooth because the razor was dulled a bit. Coticules can do both if you don't have good techniques going for you which can make it hard to tell the difference.

Imo test shaving after the 12k is important because harsh 12* edge may mean you didn't get the most from it..

Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I have heard somewhere the suggestion that after the 12K hone, whether Chinese or Naniwa, that the coticule will still make for a smoother edge. On the other hand, I hear the typical coticule said to be approximately comparable to an 8K-10K stone.

So...is there a case for going from a 12K finishing stone to the coticule?

Gentlemen, your arguments and experiences pro and con please!

Hadn't heard this.

A Coticule after a Naniwa is redundant, however from a consistency standpoint, the Naniwa is preferable in my experience.

I think you need a little experience and common sense with some of this stuff.

Have fun,

Lynn

I don't have a lot of experience honing razors. Neither do I have the amount of common sense God gave a horse, so I will offer my comments right after Lynn's post.

I have restored 3 razors using only a coticule and have had excellent results. I have purchased 2 other vintage razors from reputable honers which where sent to me shave ready with a coat of oil each time. They were honed using synthetic stones. These without a doubt were sharper (IMO) than the coticule sharpened razors I now own.

However, if having a less sharp coticule edge is wrong, then I don't want to be right. I dulled the other 2 and honed them up using that same coticule with progressive slurries, so I can't comment on what happens if you coticule after the 12k. It would totally floor me if I were to find out that the smoothness of the coticule shave does not come at the cost of some amount of sharpness.

In any event, with my level of technique and experience, I feel like the coticule edge allows me a tiny bit of forgiveness, no to mention a smoother, more comfortable shave. I'll take it!