Thread: Norton 220/1000 + 4000/8000 + flattening stone = bad results

Originally Posted by Shoki

Having to lap a lapping stone seems ridiculous. I have one one and I guess that's what it needs... I never use it because it's so unfinished.

Couldn't I hit the lapping stone with the 220? Or will it just wear down the 220 and not lap the lapping stone?

Maybe take it out and rub it on the sidewalk for a bit?

Thank you,
--Shoki

Ridiculous?? yes, I agree and so do a bunch of other guys on SRP. Thats why The DMT 325 grit diamond hone is so popular here.

Use the 220? Nope, don't do it. Then you will have 2 uneven hones.

BTW, the sidewalk is probably not flat.

Just for info, as I use a DMT and a Shapton now

But back in June of 2007 when I first became a member here, I was honing with the Norton set up..
And used that stupid Norton lapping plate for at least 500 razors and countless lappings...
I simply rubbed the 220 and the plate together and kept both of them "close" to flat using a figure 8 pattern...
I NEVER used sandpaper, and I simply checked the grid every now and then on the 1/4/8 stones...

Don't get me wrong I love the absolute flatness of the DMT and the Shapton plates and the fact that they do not impart grit...
But honestly we sometimes get a bit to wrapped up in the flatness issue, when really the X stroke when done correctly can be used on a round hone..
Now embedding grit is a problem that needs to be watched, especially on the 1k and 4k, a 3M green pad can solve that... Just a quick wipe under running water should get any grit out...

To the OP, honing unlike you read on some shaving forums is not quite as easy as some people think, it is a learned skill and the more you hone the better you get...

The X stroke has to touch the whole edge heel to toe evenly, use the marker test to see how you are doing... This and a weak bevel set are the two biggest beginner problems with honing...

Will the Norton Lapping Stone kill a DMT 325? I guess I don't mind killing my 220 side of my 220/1000 if it would settle the lapping stone down some.\

Thank you,
--Shoki

Yes the 220 or the Lapping stone WILL kill a DMT 325

Randy's post is actually more correct than mine BTW

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes the 220 or the Lapping stone WILL kill a DMT 325

Thanks Glen, thats very useful info. I have just ordered a set of DMT hones so I will remember that.

The lapping stone/hone issue has been around for a long time now and it seems it has been determined that a DMT 325 is probably the best way to go.
My experience lapping Nortons has been just about the opposite from Glens. The majority of times I have used just wet/dry sandpaper and never experienced embedded grit on my hones. But.... that changed when some new guys brought over their new Norton 4K and they had small holes in them that needed to be lapped out. The little holes became filled with abrasives and no amount of scrubbing with anything got it out. A DMT 325 was the best solution for that situation.

I agree that the flatness issue is overstated and also agree that even if the hone is rounded it can be used . For the new guys...the one thing to watch out for is a hone that is dished out in the center ( sides are higher than the middle of the hone). That needs to be lapped out.

Just my $.02,

Some time ago ChrisL and Utopian both recommended the DMTXX 120 for lapping hard barber hones. I bought one and it is a heckuva tool. If I have a water stone that shows it needs a lot, by looking at the pencil grid after a few strokes on the 325, I go to the XX. Get the hone flat and then draw another grid and knock the scratches left by the 120 off with the 325. I don't use it on all of them, only when it really has a ways to go.

You know Randy that 4k problem really started sometime around 2008 when Norton stopped making the 4k in the USA and the production whent to Mexico, I am pretty sure the 4k has been moved again to Canada.. Maybe somebody that has a very new one could check the box...
The last one I had go through my hands I am pretty sure I read 4k Canada, 8k USA....

Ok, you guys finally convinced me. Just ordered the DMT 325 from SRD. I'll be a happy lapper now!!!

Enjoy!! ...

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Thanks Glen, thats very useful info. I have just ordered a set of DMT hones so I will remember that.

The lapping stone/hone issue has been around for a long time now and it seems it has been determined that a DMT 325 is probably the best way to go.
My experience lapping Nortons has been just about the opposite from Glens. The majority of times I have used just wet/dry sandpaper and never experienced embedded grit on my hones. But.... that changed when some new guys brought over their new Norton 4K and they had small holes in them that needed to be lapped out. The little holes became filled with abrasives and no amount of scrubbing with anything got it out. A DMT 325 was the best solution for that situation.

I agree that the flatness issue is overstated and also agree that even if the hone is rounded it can be used . For the new guys...the one thing to watch out for is a hone that is dished out in the center ( sides are higher than the middle of the hone). That needs to be lapped out.

Just my $.02,