Thread: Norton 220/1000 + 4000/8000 + flattening stone = bad results

ok

after a year or so trying to hone my razors (never got super good result) with the norton combo 4000/8000 flattened with sandpaper I decided to upgrade the kit getting the flattening stone + 220/1000

after flattening (the 4000/8000 was really bad apparently) I started with an already "not so good" razor, still capable of shaving but not confortable

I have noted the 4000 side to be very very rough...why? maybe not enough running water while flattening?

did pyramind (only using 4000/8000) as from 15 laps and finished it on a chinese stone

result was a razor blade in the center and far from good on heel and point

this morning I got the stones that I left drying and, especially the chinese one was also rough in half of its extension while the other side was more polished (not as good as before when I used sandpaper)

so from here we move

1-norton flatenning stone: is it a bummer?
2-sandpaper technique: is it really superior
3-how do I bring this razor back to life?

tks/paulo

There could be a lot of things.

How was the razor before you started? If the bevel was not set, it probably just needs more work. It is also possible that you simply need to utilize a rolling X or some other stroke to get contact on the toe and heal areas.

The Norton flattening stone needs to be lapped before the first time you use it. After that, it will need to be lapped periodically. For these reasons, I prefer a DMT.

Coarse lapping stones will leave scratches in the C12k. They can be taken out by lapping with a higher grit material (stone, sandpaper, whatever). But several members have said that they have noticed no adverse effects to having those scratches in the stones, so I doubt that is a problem.

I have the same stones as well as the Norton flattening stone. The lapping stone worked ok but I bought a DMT D8C and use that to lap my stones now and have not regretted it at all. They are a very useful tool to have.

You are one persistent guy! Thats whats required to succeed at this.

First, send your razor to someone in the classifieds a to have it honed. Then you will know what "razor sharp" really is.

Second, purchase another vintage razor to practice honing on then compare your honing results to the professionally honed razor.

Third, lap that Norton flattening stone on some 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper and use lots of water. Then relap your hones using the Norton lapping stone, again using lots of water. You do not want any abrasive grit from the lapping stone to become embedded in the hones. After that lap the hones on 600 or 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper using lots of water. You will end up with a nice texture on the hones.

At no point should you use a lot of pressure while lapping. That is a surefire way to get some grit embedded in the hone.

Hope this helps,

result was a razor blade in the center and far from good on heel and point

There are several possible causes:

1. Razor edge has a "smile" -- the blade is wider at the center, and narrower at the heel and toe.

To sharpen a smiling blade, you must use "Rolling strokes" or "Rolling X-strokes". As previous post said.

If you don't use those strokes, you get "sharp in the center, dull at the ends".

2. Stone is not flat -- high in the center, low at the edges.

If you flatten on sandpaper, on a flat surface (glass or granite tile), this should not happen. Are you using pencil marks on the stone, and sanding them off, to test that the stone is flat?

3. Blade is warped.

Warped blade on flat stone --> strange results. Uneven bevel width, parts of bevel do not get sharpened, etc. If the blade is warped, it will be difficult to sharpen -- requires "honemeister" skills.

Charles

PS -- please excuse bad grammar, very late here.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

lap that Norton flattening stone on some 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper and use lots of water.

Having to lap a lapping stone seems ridiculous. I have one one and I guess that's what it needs... I never use it because it's so unfinished.

Couldn't I hit the lapping stone with the 220? Or will it just wear down the 220 and not lap the lapping stone?

Maybe take it out and rub it on the sidewalk for a bit?

Thank you,
--Shoki

Originally Posted by Shoki

Having to lap a lapping stone seems ridiculous. I have one one and I guess that's what it needs... I never use it because it's so unfinished.

Couldn't I hit the lapping stone with the 220? Or will it just wear down the 220 and not lap the lapping stone?

Maybe take it out and rub it on the sidewalk for a bit?

Thank you,
--Shoki

Ridiculous?? yes, I agree and so do a bunch of other guys on SRP. Thats why The DMT 325 grit diamond hone is so popular here.

Use the 220? Nope, don't do it. Then you will have 2 uneven hones.

BTW, the sidewalk is probably not flat.

Just for info, as I use a DMT and a Shapton now

But back in June of 2007 when I first became a member here, I was honing with the Norton set up..
And used that stupid Norton lapping plate for at least 500 razors and countless lappings...
I simply rubbed the 220 and the plate together and kept both of them "close" to flat using a figure 8 pattern...
I NEVER used sandpaper, and I simply checked the grid every now and then on the 1/4/8 stones...

Don't get me wrong I love the absolute flatness of the DMT and the Shapton plates and the fact that they do not impart grit...
But honestly we sometimes get a bit to wrapped up in the flatness issue, when really the X stroke when done correctly can be used on a round hone..
Now embedding grit is a problem that needs to be watched, especially on the 1k and 4k, a 3M green pad can solve that... Just a quick wipe under running water should get any grit out...

To the OP, honing unlike you read on some shaving forums is not quite as easy as some people think, it is a learned skill and the more you hone the better you get...

The X stroke has to touch the whole edge heel to toe evenly, use the marker test to see how you are doing... This and a weak bevel set are the two biggest beginner problems with honing...

Will the Norton Lapping Stone kill a DMT 325? I guess I don't mind killing my 220 side of my 220/1000 if it would settle the lapping stone down some.\

Thank you,
--Shoki

Yes the 220 or the Lapping stone WILL kill a DMT 325

Randy's post is actually more correct than mine BTW