Thread: Cost effective hone purchase

I'm by no means one of the experienced honemeisters here, but I think I may be able to provide at least some useful information

The current setup I have is a norton 4k/8k and one of Tony's 4-sided pasted paddle strops with 3µ 1µ 0.5µ and 0.25µ pastes. My process so far has been to use the norton to bring the edge to the point where the geometry is consistant and will pass the HHT, not perfectly and everytime, but passable. Then I move to the pasted strop with maybe 10 strokes a side. By the time I'm done with the paddle, the razor usually is popping hairs with a vengeance. I can certainly say that the pasted paddle is a wonderful finisher after my norton; and, works equally well for refreshing blades when they start to dull out after several shaves.

Another thing I noted when making my decision with the pastes was comparing the particle sizes of hones. From comparitive grit charts, a norton 8k is approx 1µ particle size (if I remember correctly). But, I find that I get a keener edge on the 1µ paddle than with the norton 8k.

I hope I've provided some useful info to help you make your decision. I would certainly recommend a pasted paddle for use after a norton 8k. I think it would work well for after a japanese 6k, but, seeing as I've never used one, I just can't say for sure.

ToxIk,
Remember, you don't need to use all of the sides every time. The 3 and 1 micron sides are similar to the Norton sides and can be a substittute when looking for a quick refresh. The 0.5 and 0.25 are the most often used sides if you already have a Norton. The others are nice if not using a Norton.

Tony

Thanx Tony. I gathered as much.
Usually when I'm "refreshing" a blade, I'll do just a few (2-3) passes on the 1µ then the 0.5 and 0.25... But sometimes, I just can't help myself and dive in at the 3µ

Originally Posted by texan

Thanks for all the advice, very helpful. It sounds like the 8K Norton would definately be an improvement over what I currently have both in terms of speed and quality of edge. But it also sounds like to get something "wicked sharp" you need something above the 8K, whether it be a barber hone, pasted strops, or a super expensive high grit stone. My new question is if I can go straight from my 6K stone to one of those three options, or if I really need to hit the 8K stone first. I must admit that I kind of like the idea of barber hones, but I have seen on other places on this site that barber hones can be quite iffy when it comes to quality. What are your thoughts?

If you're getting a decent edge from the 6k then I'd say you're close to home. I actually find the 4k instrumental in getting some nice teeth. I don't know if I'd say it's the most important step, but certainly one of them. The 8k refines that nicely for me and although I do like to do some work to get it a little keener it is only a very little amount on the higher grits. Perhaps a few passes on some 1µ or 0.5µ paste is all you need. I remember reading recently about someone who went from a 6k to a few passes on a 10k for refinement and was getting good shaves (can't remember who). A lot depends on you and how you relate to your equipment.

Something to consider though: I like to think of the edge as having a depth of layers. Each successive grit cutting into the existing pattern. As a visual representation ...

4k = AAAAA
8k = ^^^^^
12k = """""
4+8 = A^A^A^A^A
4+8+12 = A"^"A"^"A"^"A"^"A

Too much work on a higher grit will erase the work of the lower grit. I don't think that is beneficial. I'm going to trade in my 10x eye loupe for a 25x to see if I can literally see if I'm right.

X

Tex: The 8k Norton is actually more expensive than the 4k/8k combination and the Norton 4k is one of the fastest cutters on the market. You may want to consider it when you go hone-shopping.

Originally Posted by texan

But it also sounds like to get something "wicked sharp" you need something above the 8K,

I'd disagree on this one big time.

Granted my experience is limited to this versus the veterans who've been at it for years and years, but all I have is the norton 4k/8k combo stone and I've been getting some wicked smooth shaves out of the ones I've honed recently.

I take out any nicks and even the blade on the 4k side, then I go a few rounds with the pyramid scheme discussed in the help files. If I don't like the shine on the cutting edge I'll add a few extra strokes on the 8k side of the norton at the end. My last few razors I've honed have been so sharp that I didn't have enough beard growth to shave for 2 days after I shaved with them.

Originally Posted by xman

Too much work on a higher grit will erase the work of the lower grit. I don't think that is beneficial. I'm going to trade in my 10x eye loupe for a 25x to see if I can literally see if I'm right.

Presuming that what you mean is to clearly see the actual teeth/striations that the abrasives form on the steel... I think you're going to need something abit more powerful than 25x to see if your right and by more powerful, I mean pushing the limits of optical microscopy.
I have a 60-100x microscope, and although it's optics are far from stellar, it still does allow me to see much more detail in the edge. Of course I can't actually see the teeth of the steel (unless, maybe it's 220grit), but, I can make out some detail about how much work each grit of stone resides on the steel. Now, even at 100x the stria are still so small that I can't see them, but when looking at the edge as a whole, I find that the edge will more or less reflect light differently and with differing intensity depending on which abrasives were last used.
That's one of the few levels of detail I can achieve at 100x, so, if your planning to be able to see all that at 25x, you better have eyes better than a hawk

To keep your costs at a miimum and stiill get the shaving edge that you want and be able to maintain it with a minimum learning curve go for the 4 sided, pre-pasted paddle strop from Tony Miller at www.thewellshavedgentleman.com . Using this will allow you to continue to use the hones that you have.
Later, when you have more discretionary cash you can play with the barber hones or the Nortons or whatever.

Hope this helps,

Thanks, guys. I think I have pretty much decided that the 4 sided pasted strop is my surest bet. Although I am really tempted by the barber hones. A lithide finishing hone on ebay for 15 bucks designed "especially for straight razors"...

Hal, you seem quite knowledgeable in this area, what do you think about the lithide finishing hones sold by Tilly on ebay? Do they really give an edge that can compete with a .25 micron pasted strop, assuming one knows what one is doing?

Another option is to hang outside my kitchen window cause any day now I'm going to throw my norton 4000/8000 out of it !!! Just watch out for the glass and razor that follows.
(Note though it's not the stone that's the problem, it's the user)