Thread: Cost effective hone purchase

I am relatively new to the straight razor and had a question about a new hone purchase. I already have a nice set of Japanese waterstones that I have had for years that go up to 6K. I have used them with good results on my razor. However, I have found that I can only get my razor so sharp. I can get it to where it BARELY passes the HHT, and results in a smooth, tug free shave as long as I go with the grain. However, I can't go against the grain with out massive snagging and pain. I assume the razor just isn't sharp enough as it is duller than a set of DE blades I got for comparison. I think that if I get another, finer stone I can get a better edge and shave. What do you recommend? I know the Norton 4K/8K is popular, but it costs ~$70. I can also get another Japanese waterstone of 8K or 12K for ~$70. Which is a better use of the $70? Or is there another alternative that can improve my edge for the same price, or cheaper? I am a poor grad student trying to support my family of four on my stipend, not a good time to get into the straight razor hobby...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

Texan,
You ave several choices. If you already like Japanese stones you could just go the finer route with another Japanese but these do cut much slower than a Norton. Most guys here go the Norton route as it handle most straight razor tasks in a single stone from restoration to edge maintenance. Many go right from the Norton to the strop and shave. Most I think choose to further refine of polish the edge and use another finer choice after the Norton but before the strop. If you want to go finer than the 8K though there are other otpions. You could get an inexpensive barbers hone, maybe a Lithide that would be finer than the Norton. There are also Belgian and Escher (German) stones that are very fine but these are both pricey, colector grade stones, particularly the Eschers. Pasted paddles work very well for many. A 2 or 4 sided wooden paddle with leather on each side and an abrasive applied will add a final polish and can be used to refresh a razor between honings. I use Amplex diamond paste on mine (The Well Shaved Gentleman) and there are also Thiers-Issard and Dovo pastes as well as some abrasive and bench strop options from Hand American.

I'm sure the gang will chime in soon with their impressions with all of these choices. All will work, none will take yoy down the worng path. Just pick one that sounds like a good plan for you.

Best,
Tony

If you aren't already, keep an eye on the sell and trade forums here as well as on shavemyface.com and badgerandblade.com

You could probably get a complete assortment of barbers hones for a song and use them though they are more difficult to work with than the Norton but if money is a problem thats a way to go. The other alternative is to send out your razors to one of the honemeisters here and once you know its wicked sharp then use a paddle strop with pastes to keep them sharp. You could go a long time before needing another expert sharpening that way.

You usually get what you pay for. Devil's advocate.

X

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

You could probably get a complete assortment of barbers hones for a song and use them though they are more difficult to work with than the Norton but if money is a problem thats a way to go....[snip] ....

Hi there bigspendur!

The idea that barber hones "are more difficult" depends entirely on who is using them. Several members, who are first rate honemeisters, who posted way back when the original SRP forum was starting out, hold an entirely contrary view. They have told me personally that Nortons didn't work for them. Other genuine honemeisters consider Nortons too aggressive for straight razors. That doesn't mean, however, that Nortons are more difficult to use, or that you can't use them. Some members here are masters at using them and do a superlative job. But these days, there are lots of new members using Nortons based the prevailing group mythology concerning barber hones. Some are posting very regularly, and repeating these remarks, having never used any themselves, or at best having used them only occassionaly or experimentally. All it takes are remarks like these to be repeated by a few members who happen to post regularly, for many new members to assume that what they are saying is objective fact. This is hardly the case.

Against the current opinion being blindly propagated here, I will offer my opinion. (it's an opinion so please don't believe me, but if you want to find out, you're going to have to commit yourself to the time, effort and patience needed to master barber hones, which BTW unlike the Nortons, were designed specifically for straight razors, not industrial tools.)

If you're concerned about cost effectiveness, nothing can beat purchasing some hones from Tilly. Once again she is offering some nice hones listed on e-bay with rock bottom BIN prices. Unbelievable, when you consider that these are NOS classic barber hones that can neither be replaced nor reproduced. The knowledge and skill required to make them have been lost forever with those who have long since passed on. Tilly with her terrific service and extensive knowledge, in offering these hones at affordable prices, has made a considerable contribution to the straight razor community. As X man says, you will "get what you pay for", but what you get, may not be what you want.

Just my two cents worth.... da ching...

Hal

It may be more cost-effective to just get the Norton. I got the Japanese slipstones b/c I wanted to save money and they did the job, but now I also have a Norton. If you're into honing, chances are you'll buy it eventually. Especially if you're getting and restoring old blades. You want to have a faster cutter. That doesn't mean that the Norton will remove a nick in 2 strokes, but it will work a heck of a lot faster than the Japanese alternatives.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

It may be more cost-effective to just get the Norton. I got the Japanese slipstones b/c I wanted to save money and they did the job, but now I also have a Norton. If you're into honing, chances are you'll buy it eventually. Especially if you're getting and restoring old blades. You want to have a faster cutter. That doesn't mean that the Norton will remove a nick in 2 strokes, but it will work a heck of a lot faster than the Japanese alternatives.

Firestart,

Good to hear you are enjoying your Norton and getting good results. I learned on a Norton too, but eventually sold mine, long after opting to spend the extra time to master barber hones. And I'm still learning. There is so much to learn, with so many different types of hones, different razors with different problems etc.. I've successfully restored quite a few razors and some pretty dull ones too using only barber hones. Admittedly, it takes longer but I'm in no hurry. Besides, not all barber hones cut slowly; I have a couple that will cut every bit as fast as the Norton 4000. But I'm in no need of a quick fix. On the contrary, I took up this lost art simply because I wanted to slow down and learn to take my time in order to be more mindful. However, if you have something that required removing lots of steel (like a nic in the blade edge) you could use a DMT extra fine (but you've got to know what your are doing or you may well ruin the blade) and follow up with a sequence of barber hones with good results. As I see it, (and this is just my opinion and preference) there would be no need to eventually get a Norton.

Hal

In my case, I'm getting lots of blades and doing a lot of honing, so I am in need of a fast cutter. It is the general concensus here that Norton is the best for the job. I may even get the 1000. I also like to slow down, but at the same time, it gets frustrating when it takes forever to hone a nick or a pit out of an edge. Norton takes less time and I am still honing instead of taking my blades to some miracle high-tech solution. I admire your interest in barber hones and I have nothing against them. Don't count me out of giving them a shot eventually.

Thanks for all the advice, very helpful. It sounds like the 8K Norton would definately be an improvement over what I currently have both in terms of speed and quality of edge. But it also sounds like to get something "wicked sharp" you need something above the 8K, whether it be a barber hone, pasted strops, or a super expensive high grit stone. My new question is if I can go straight from my 6K stone to one of those three options, or if I really need to hit the 8K stone first. I must admit that I kind of like the idea of barber hones, but I have seen on other places on this site that barber hones can be quite iffy when it comes to quality. What are your thoughts?

To Xman, I understand you get what you pay for, but that's my concern, I don't mind spending some money up front, but I want to make sure that it will actually be a decent improvement over my 6K stone, and I am hoping that if I buy the proper item I can get my razor sharp enough to get that high quality shave everybody raves about.

Firestart, at this point, I'm not too interested in razor restoration because I can't even get my new razor sharp enough. However, I have noticed from sharpening other items on my japanese water stones that using the proper grit at the proper point will result in very fast sharpening, but if you move to the high grits too fast, it will take eternity to sharpen a blade. Of course this doesn't come from straight razor sharpening, that may be a different world...