Thread: What exactly is overhoning?

I agree with you guys that overhoning is the creation of a bur. I'm a weird guy who actually looks for the bur when setting the bevel then removes it before honing, mainly because I like to use Arkansas stones which seem to create them more readily than the synthetic water stones. I believe that experienced guys like holli can get a good bevel set without forming one; wish I could do that.

This is actually pretty simple. The problem is we confuse "overhoning" with lots of strokes.

This is a fundamental reason that people have trouble with honing.

Take a 220 grit stone on a shave ready razor, do a few passes, then look at the edge with a microscope. Then, you'll see and feel "overhoning".

Overhoning is an effect, not an action.

Barber hones sit pretty close to the grit point that prevents overhoning. Hone all day and there is no effect.

Lots of guys go even further than that in grit level.

If you think of the idea of overhoning, without immediately jumping to thinking about using a lot of strokes, then you can begin to understand "overhoning".

On this forum you will here the words, something like this: "you've got to get a good bevel". That is the rally cry against "overhoning". Overhoning is NOT a separate issue that can only occur on high grit hones. In fact, it is very hard to produce on higher grit stones.

Overhoning is failing to transition to a higher grit stone when called for and then damaging the shape of the bevel and edge in the process.

For a straight razor, overhoning is usually caused by a few strokes on 4K. Overhoning is usually not caused by 100 passes on 12K.

Originally Posted by knightwolf

I have never understood the term overhone if you keep the same angle all you will do is keep removing metal and the edge will always be the same the only thing that will be overdone is that you will decrease the width of your blade. Unless you do more strokes on one side than the other then a wire edge would develop. But each time you flip to the new side it would knock the wire or burr off.

I'm not clear on why additional strokes once the bevel is set would "decrease the width" of a blade. Assuming the strokes are done correctly, then they will all be in the same plane as the existing sides of the bevel. The geometry of the bevel and edge won't be changed at all while additional steel is removed. The blade width will not be decreased by doing this. To the contrary, it will actually be increased because removing steel results in the honer moving up the blade as the steel is removed, and as one gets closer to the spine, the blade width naturally increases.

I'm against over-honing in the sense of too many strokes, although I've been as guilty as any. I'm not sure, however, why additional (and perhaps unnecessary) strokes done absolutely correctly should have any negative effect on edge geometry. But if that is true, then there can be no such thing as over-honing.

Almost to the week You can go find the same response form me most every 6 months going back a few years




Please do not start the whole over honing thing again....

Anyone who even thinks they are over honing just take a razor and try and do it...

Every single time these threads start, we get a whole new rash of the infamous "My razor doesn't shave" answered with the equally infamous "It must be overhoned"

Here are the numbers I have

I have honed getting close to 5000 razors now, most from other people of course.... I HAVE NEVER had a razor come to me for an edge that was over honed not one, ever...

I have over honed one razor and I did it intentionally to yank a heel into line...
Th formation of a burr is not the only indicator of overhoning, you can go so far as to get the "fin" so thin that is starts to degrade and the edge fails from high grit laps with pressure or from the same with pastes, but it takes pressure....I figured all this out by trying it...

Again, I say this if you want to learn about how hard it is to overhone a razor, and how easy it is to fix then do it on purpose, take a razor a try it, quit talking about it, and get the stones out and do it...

Sorry for the rant but IME the whole over honing thing is just a cover for poor bevel sets in the first place...

I have found myself wanting to write an angry letter to someone. Sometimes I have written the letter, then tore it up and dealt with my own issues instead of inflicting them on someone else.

I think it can be much the same with posting in this forum.

Originally Posted by HNSB

What exactly is overhoning, how do you recognize it, and how much does it take to make it happen???

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Originally Posted by ace

I have found myself wanting to write an angry letter to someone. Sometimes I have written the letter, then tore it up and dealt with my own issues instead of inflicting them on someone else.

I think it can be much the same with posting in this forum.

Sometimes one must actually read the post before commenting...

If you took the time to read it you would have learned that it is over a year old,

I feel that rude comments such as yours, without reading the post are out of line...

Any other communication will be by PM..

I have learned that aggressive steel removal can quickly create a burr

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Anyone who even thinks they are over honing just take a razor and try and do it...

In progress....
That was part of the idea of this thread - to find out what it takes.
I am up to four razors now with the same progression mentioned in the OP, and I've gotten nothing but smooth shave-ready edges.

I guess I didn't try overhoning on the low end, and I didn't use any pressure. Those are things I am going to try as well. For some reason I had it in my mind that I read overhoning is easier on the high grit stones. But, maybe it is more a thing on the low grit stones. The general consensus seems to be that when it happens, it is the result of forming a burr on a low grit.

I just need to find a razor that I don't mind destroying in an effort to understand this.

No need to destroy it. Randy told me that if you have an overhoned edge take a wooden match stick and weight of the blade run the edge across it. If you're lucky stropping will bring it back if you're not back to the hone. Back honing a few strokes can also get rid of a burr.

I think there is also the phenomenon of finishing a razor to an optimum sharpness but going on and losing it. Not the same appearance as a 'burr'. I believe I've done that more than once. More strokes but very light can bring it back IME. It is a delicate balance for me. Seems like a lot of guys take to this honing like a duck to water. I've had to work at it but maybe I'm slow.