Thread: Some thoughts on HHT

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

Yes, continue to shave with the razor stropping the hell out of it prior to each shave .

I cringe every time I see someone use the expression " stropping the hell" out of
a razor.

It implies a freshly honed razor should be stropped heavily when the opposite is true.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I cringe every time I see someone use the expression " stropping the hell" out of
a razor.

It implies a freshly honed razor should be stropped heavily when the opposite is true.

Perhaps to clarify, as a standard, I strop razors 100 laps after honing which coincidentally is my standard pre-shave stropping regimen. When I first started 20-30 laps was the standard, this worked but not real well. Now that I strop much more, I'm noticing the edges staying much crisper and the shaves seem to go better. An improvement in stropping technique is certainly another way to explain the edges being better.

Gibbs, here's a link that will explain the Pyramid method in detail
Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki

:

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

Stone and pyramid from 25 normally works for me. Lots of stropping afterwards

Speaking of overthinking, here is an example of overthinking and over doing the honing.

Everyone seems to "overthink" something, but they like to emphasize the parts they find simple.

Pyramiding has it's place as well as "stropping the hell out of it".

Any razor, that is a candidate for the HHT, is not a candidate for a pyramid. I know I'm being picky, but we need to keep our advice in line with the thread in question. Next thing you know we have a dozen people doing pyramids on sharp razors.

A good rule of thumb is that if you are talking about shaving on the Internet you are already overthinking the entire affair.

I just thought this would be a great thread for me to chime into as I have had a very basic conundrum in the back Of 'me wee little brain for a couple of months now and I think your fellows might be able to help. When I started honing, not very good at it yet by the way, I considered all the test's for a keen edge that SRP's WIKI had to offer as well as many of the threads and tried them ALL! The one as you blokes just mentioned that had the most promise was the comparison of the DE blade to whatever Str8 edge you might need evaluating. BUT, most DE edge's feel very, very polished much more than "Sticky" to my fingers, and I also noticed that my edge while honing will be sticky after the 1K and evey after the initial polishing on the 4K, but as I progress through the 8K and beyond the edges will not be as "Sticky" as it is slick and polished[like the DE edge]. Having stated this can it be said that the sticky feedback from the TPT is a great indicator at the lower grit stages of honing but not so much at the 8K and finer parts???? I just went to my medicine chest and took out a Merkur blade and yes that fresh blade is just as polished as I said I found them to be. I don't write all that well, so please bear with me gents, if I mis-stated my case, please forgive.
And by the way, thank you fellows for being there for me, this is one of the better hobby's I"ve been assosiated will for man a year. thanks.

tinkersd of SRP!

tinkersd,

Here is my point of view. First, the shaving test is the ultimate and final test. All pertinent references to sharpening end with the final evaluation of the razors potential to shave. Monkeys can eventually get a razor sharp, but there is a good reason why they don't shave with those blades.

Anyone that relies on the shaving test to evaluate sharpness while honing is either an idiot or honing while they are in the shower.

It's far too inefficient to even consider shave testing while honing.

So, some form of test should be created. The HHT is a good test, but you have to know your hair (whichever hair you choose) and go from there. I use chest hair. So for me, passing the HHT is easy and the way the hair is cut (the effectiveness) tells me a lot about the sharpness of the razor. If I can't pass the HHT with a razor than I am so far off from basic honing principles that I should just give up honing all together. The basic premise is the use of a high grit stone using a perfect stroke. That is the key to developing sharpness. That, and of course, using no pressure in the stroke.

The thumbpad test measures sharpness because the edge has become so sharp that it now cuts the skin on contact. Slight movement sideways is caught in this contact patch. This is pretty subtle and hard to really judge until you have lots of experience. For me though it is best applied after stropping. As you have noted passing the test with striated teeth on the edge from a low grit stone is kind of pointless.

I would suggest you focus a little on stropping technique and complete your TPT tests after stropping. Go with the assumption that the edge will get sticky once it is shave ready. Work the strop in a few different ways as there are many strops and many misunderstandings about stropping. Do not accept anything less than stickiness as the guide to shaver ready. In the end you'll discover a new level of sharpness and a new level of respect for the complexity and power of the strop.

The finer the grit of the stone the harder it is to pass the TPT with hone alone. But, the TPT is a shave readiness test, not just a sharpness test.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

Perhaps to clarify, as a standard, I strop razors 100 laps after honing which coincidentally is my standard pre-shave stropping regimen. When I first started 20-30 laps was the standard, this worked but not real well. Now that I strop much more, I'm noticing the edges staying much crisper and the shaves seem to go better. An improvement in stropping technique is certainly another way to explain the edges being better.

Lots of people do 100 laps post honing. It may just be semantics but stropping the hell out of it just sounds more aggressive than that to me

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

:



Any razor, that is a candidate for the HHT, is not a candidate for a pyramid. I know I'm being picky, but we need to keep our advice in line with the thread in question. Next thing you know we have a dozen people doing pyramids on sharp razors.

I take what you say to heart.
Working on my A.W. Wadsworth tonight (just relaxing) I used my Norton HS4 Hard Arkansas Stone and spit. Yes I spit. I have found over the years it adds a certain lubricity to the stone I'm working on. Maybe it's just me. I know that the NORTON is probably a 4000 grit, so, after a while of little circular motions on each side I begin to feel "glide" I really have a hard time explaining that. But, it's a feel I get when the blade is really laying in flat and not even trying to grab or have any slight vibrations anymore. So, since I don't have an 8000 I just relax the pressure to the point is is merely gliding along on my spit. Kept at the light circular motion for a while. (I only have a stone that is 4" wide by 2" tall) So in little circular motions I do this as I have done on other things to sharpen them. Light, light, light. Flip over and over. Finally got to where the razor simply glided around on the stone on my spit.

Then, I got my old leather belt and stropped it a while. Maybe 80-100 times. That belt has some "dust" in it and probably carries some abrasive in itself. Then I went to my horse Latigo (saddle strap) and did about 50-80 reps on it. Since both the belt and the Latigo are only 1 3/8" wide I needed to keep kind of an "X" motion in place to get all across the blade with the belt or leather "tack" Latigo. BTW the Latigo has polished side that I used, while the belt I used was on the inside or rougher side. FWIW.

Went out to the kitchen with the good light, got my daughters hair brush, found a hair and proceeded to cut the hair by touching it to the blade. Kept it up cutting the hair shorter and shorter.

I think I'm gaining now. Wish I had an 8000 grit stone!

Can a razor pass HHT if the bevel is not perfectly set? I was thinking that on nearly new razors I don't have to go from 1k if the razor passes HHT, because than the bevel should be in fair condition, and it is enough to start at 3k naniwa. Would be good if a test would exist that tells you 100% if the bevel is set. Yes, the TPT, but im still noob at it

jeness, that is a good thought. If you get a new razor or have one that is close to getting ready to shave or in need of honing as in a used razor, what is the "fall back" grit of stone to bring it into shape? If it needs the bevel set, then I would think 1000 is starter and work up. However, if is is already "nearly" there, I would think 4000 grit would be the start and go up from there.

Originally Posted by jeness

I was thinking that on nearly new razors I don't have to go from 1k if the razor passes HHT, because than the bevel should be in fair condition

If the razor is passing HHT at all points along the edge, the razor ought to be test-shaved. And then go from there.

I am not sure it is a guarantee that the bevel will not need work, but it is unusual that a poor bevel will hold up an edge which is passing HHT. There's no test that is going to guarantee what the razor needs, but tests can help give you more consistent troubleshooting feedback when you are familiar with using them