Thread: How long does it take to get it?

Seems I can never get a razor where I want it. The bevel seems set well, but when I test shave the sharpness and smoothness are rather lacking. Frustrating.

Razor 1: touch up. started with 8k, then C12k, then finished with shapton 16k. not smooth not sharp. took to CrOx and still no.

Razor 2. group up honing. much smoother than the other, but not quite there and not sharp. 800, 4k, nonyama jnat i stopped here to test it out on a shave as it seemed smooth on arm hair and such and i didn't want to overhone or go overboard.

read this

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ght-razor.html


Really if the bevel is set everything just comes together... The only trouble you should have is getting the bevel truly set, then just don't over "finish" and honing is pretty easy... I am not quite sure where/when this idea of double and triple finishers started...

But in your progression you are finishing on the PHIG then refinishing on the Shapton you would be better served by setting the bevel at 1k then using a 2k or 3k to make sure you have it, then by going to the high stones twice...

Bevel bevel bevel honest it really is all about the bevel.... in fact if you can't get a decent shave at the 4k level you did something wrong....

I'll freely admit I still haven't "got it". Whether from honing or shaving technique I don't know. I think mostly honing. What I do know is that my DE is still more comfortable than my straights...and this is unacceptable to me.

(My straights will shave...they just are as comfortable, so I know there is something lacking.)

I'll second the advice already given though, whether razor, knife, or just about anything it ought to be "sharp" before you ever leave your coarsest stone. From there it's about getting that "smoooooooooooooth"...without losing the "sharp".

I didn't see any mention of stropping. My blades don't reveal what they can do after honing until I strop them.

+1 To what Ace has said. Stropping is where my results come together.

Originally Posted by ace

I didn't see any mention of stropping. My blades don't reveal what they can do after honing until I strop them.

Yes stropping is important but if you are getting some draw dropping changes from the stropping of your razor something is wrong with that picture. Stropping should lead to a refinement of the edge only.

Once you are past 8k if you can hear the stroke you are pressing too hard. Anything above a whisper is too much pressure. Just let the weight of the razor do the work. It is a tough touch to acquire. Be patient. It's coming!

I'm still a long ways away from getting great edges, but I've just recently figured out solutions to some of my quirks that have helped me get shave-ready edges. I've realized that after I think my razors are shave-ready, that I need to go right back to the 4k and do the whole thing again. It seems like I've been spending a lot of time on the 1k, and not enough on the 4k and 8k (go figure, the guys who have been honing for years and create spectacular edges are right in saying that you need to spend most of your time setting the bevel and in the lower grit stones! Who woulda thought?!).

Spending more time stropping after coming off the hones has really helped refine my edge, but like thebigspendur said, I think that you should have a damn near perfect edge right off the hones, stropping should just smooth things out (in turn giving you a smoother shave), not sharpen the razor any further.

It took me a solid couple of months of frustration (with a couple of successes tossed in) to get it right.
In the meantime I was willing to blame my lack of success on anything other than ME. I had the wrong stones, the stones were too wide, I had blades with bad steel, I needed a slurry stone, I needed a different slurry stone. I needed a different set of stones... etc...

I think sometimes we read about guys that just pick up a stone and are immediately successful, and assume that it works that way for everyone. It doesn't. It can take a lot of time (and honing laps) to develop the fine motor control of the honing stroke.

I've been experimenting a lot lately with "overhoning" and microchipping. What I can say for sure is that if your stroke is good these problems diminish drastically. I have been able to microchip a blade and to cause a "microburr" with too much honing on a high grit stone, but even then with stropping it will still shave, just not as well as it could.
What I have been able to do very easily in the experiments is to damage the edge by putting pressure on the blade or by rocking the blade forward. This type of damage is much more dramatic than the tiny chips I've seen with using too many strokes on a finisher, and it will cause blades to not shave comfortably at all.
I am convinced that most of the problems I had in learning to hone (and I would assume that it's the same for other people) were the result of not having good bevels set, and not having a consistent pressure-free stroke.

Just keep at it, and you'll get there. Put down the razor and stone when you get frustrated. Take a break and come back with a good feeling about honing. Nothing will ruin an edge quicker for me than being mad at the razor.

Well, we need another Asheville, NC meet so I can get some tutoring.

Okay, bevel, bevel bevel. I agree. And, the only tests I can really know of seeing if the bevel is set properly is if it shaves arm hair. I don't know if it should do it effortlessly, or just be able to do it...

There's looking at it with a scope and the marker test. Aside from that, how do you know your bevel is really set?

That said, in my short shaving career, I have come to find mainly two types of hone jobs. Sticky sharp and smooth sharp. I suppose finding out how to get one or the other comes with time and practice?

I could be using a touch too much pressure on the higher hones??

As far as double finishers, I wasn't thinking of that, though it does make sense. I was thinking 12K comes before 16K, progression.

Thanks for the help! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one still struggling. I'm having fun with it all, though. That's all that matters.