Thread: Hair Popping Honing Help.

I'm still trying to get my bevel sharp enough to pop hair so I can move on to the next hone!!

The hone that you should be using to set the bevel should be 1,000 grit.

You should put no pressure on the blade on the stone, just the weight of the razor–always.

If your stone isn't perfectly flat, you are always going to have problems.

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible.

Also, go buy a lighted microscope (probably for a jeweler) for $5 on ebay. I bought one, its awesome–this tiny magnifying glass 45x power, with a led light attached to it. Great for seeing what's going on with your edge.

So, here's the scoop tonight.

I took the blade back down to my 4k equivalent. Ran several passes...lost count, went back to my +/- 10k and ran several passes while watching the tube...sort of. No hair popping but serious grab on the TPT. So I decided to go to the strop...nicked it ever so slightly with the heel...which is what I was afraid wouldn't get sharp.

Gave her a test shave...meh...not so hot. It cut stubble for sure, but not smoothly. I had to follow up with a DE. That felt smooth, but my skin does not feel happy right now and I'm pretty confident it's not because of the DE.

BUT, this was only shave number TWO all time with a straight, so I'm open to believing that my blade's not the problem, it's my lack of technique. I may play around with it more, but right now I'm feeling like I just can't get a blade where it needs to be with the tools I have...and at this point, with the other things that have gone on with my venture into straight shaving, and having just moved to a new state, and having a baby due in the next few weeks...there's no buying a Norton 4/8 (which would fill my gap).

We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for the input fellas. I'll keep my eye out for that lighted microscope...that sounds like a fun toy to have around for a number of reasons.

Peace,

Originally Posted by BigJim

So, here's the scoop tonight.

I took the blade back down to my 4k equivalent. Ran several passes...lost count, went back to my +/- 10k and ran several passes while watching the tube...sort of. No hair popping but serious grab on the TPT. So I decided to go to the strop...nicked it ever so slightly with the heel...which is what I was afraid wouldn't get sharp.

Gave her a test shave...meh...not so hot. It cut stubble for sure, but not smoothly. I had to follow up with a DE. That felt smooth, but my skin does not feel happy right now and I'm pretty confident it's not because of the DE.

BUT, this was only shave number TWO all time with a straight, so I'm open to believing that my blade's not the problem, it's my lack of technique. I may play around with it more, but right now I'm feeling like I just can't get a blade where it needs to be with the tools I have...and at this point, with the other things that have gone on with my venture into straight shaving, and having just moved to a new state, and having a baby due in the next few weeks...there's no buying a Norton 4/8 (which would fill my gap).

We'll see how things go.

Thanks again for the input fellas. I'll keep my eye out for that lighted microscope...that sounds like a fun toy to have around for a number of reasons.

Peace,

sorry to say what you are doing is wrong. why in the world you are moving from 4k to 10K?
if the reason you don't have lower grit stone then 10 k then you will need to spend a lot time to bring the edge from 4k to 10 k level.
is your 4k is norton ?
if yes?
then stay on Norton until you will pop up the hairs on skin level.
Now if you are unable to get that level then problem with your strokes.
you are using too much pressure, or even set the bevel correctly on 1k level.
hope this helps.

Originally Posted by daflorc

The hone that you should be using to set the bevel should be 1,000 grit. 2-5K can work too but depends on the damage

You should put no pressure on the blade on the stone, just the weight of the razor–always. When finishing yes, but a 'little' pressure is ok at bevel set.

If your stone isn't perfectly flat, you are always going to have problems.
Not necessarily as some softer stones will lose "perfect" flatness after just a few sets of strokes but it is worth checking every few razors

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible. The stone doesn't really determine how good your stroke is. That just comes with practice.

Also, go buy a lighted microscope (probably for a jeweler) for $5 on ebay. I bought one, its awesome–this tiny magnifying glass 45x power, with a led light attached to it. Great for seeing what's going on with your edge.

As a visual learner,I really agree on buying some kind of magnification, tho I bet there's a bunch of guys out there that hone just on feel.

I am positive anybody who really knows what they're doing won't need a microscope. Which is why I need a microscope

Originally Posted by BigJim

....snip....
2: I'm working on a recent antique store find, Sterling 6/8 hollow ground razor that I've gotten to grab/pop hairs in one spot about an inch from the toe. This blade does not have a smile (maybe a smirk the last 1/4 inch to the heel) as attested by a straight edge. But the rest of the blade does not freely grab hair (it will cut wetted hair with a shaving like stroke, but I don't think that's what the guys on the honing vids are doing).

Thanks in advance for your patience and support.

The length of the edge should be all the same.
If you have 1" that grabs and pops hair then
ask what is different.

Use the marker trick to see if there is a bevel issue.
I like a red marker I can see the thin red line better than
a thin black line.

Use a pin to feel for a burr, a burr can catch hair but will not shave well.

Use a light stroke.

Tests against hair are an individual thing.
They work for some folk and not for others.

You can try a sharp DE blade to compare.
If a good DE does not pass then it is likely the hair.
Oil on the razor messes it up. And sure
try the HHT on a dull DE before you put it in the dead
razor save.

I sometimes snag a dark hair from my gals
hair brush. A sharp edge will often grab and cut
a hair 1/4" away from where I hold it. I can
test the edge every half inch if I want and
look for dull places. Dull places are obviously
dull when you find them. Sharp is more difficult
because a hair may catch and cut when held in in one
direction but not in the other. But once I find
a sharp spot I can explore the edge for differences.

Lately I just shave test. If it is dull I put it down
and grab a known sharp razor to finish the shave.
Later I revisit the hones with the dull blade. If you
only have one straight switch to a tossable and
do not punish your face.

Originally Posted by daflorc

If you're using a skinny stone and have to use an x-stroke––good luck. I bought a 3in wide stone so i can keep the whole blade on the stone at the same time. If I were you I'd do the same–when you're trying to learn something new that takes a degree of skill, its always a good idea to remove variables and operate as simply as possible.

You must remember though that many vintage razors were sharpened on narrower hones by their previous owners so when you take them to a 3" hone you'll find the cutting edge won't be making contact with the hone along its entire length. On many razors you'll have to remove a lot of metal to adapt the edge to 3" honing. Most vintage hones are less than 3", many of us like to use them, I do as well.

Originally Posted by daflorc

I am positive anybody who really knows what they're doing won't need a microscope. Which is why I need a microscope

HA HA HA! Guess that means I need one too!

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

sorry to say what you are doing is wrong. why in the world you are moving from 4k to 10K?

I have a 220, a 500, a 3K equivalent, a 4K equivalent, and a Barber Hone that's the +/- 10K and the reason for the +/-. Glen's a beast of a honer, but he can set a bevel at 4K and I don't trust the 500 to do it. Maybe the 3k would be a better choice, but this is like spitting in a tornado.

BTW, the 220/500 is lapped perfectly flat...so is the Barber Hone. The 3K/4K is a wet/dry paper setup mounted on glass and rolled on, but I'm less confident about it, and might try re-doing it with a press instead of a roller.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Now if you are unable to get that level then problem with your strokes.
... or even set the bevel correctly on 1k level.
hope this helps.

Heheheh...if you only knew all of the variables at hand. I don't have enough time to get into all the outside factors that have led to this situation, but suffice it to say, I agree with you. And it does help. And I appreciate the input. I may just have to wait out straight shaving until I can get through the moving/baby/etc. valley and acquire the tools I need to do it right.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

The length of the edge should be all the same.
If you have 1" that grabs and pops hair then
ask what is different.

I agree. I don't have magnification to see what it might reveal. But, there's no indication of a smile, so what I believe is different is that the one sharp spot is the half an inch of the razor that didn't get beat up quite as much as it sat in a shoe box under the table in the antique store.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use the marker trick to see if there is a bevel issue.
I like a red marker I can see the thin red line better than
a thin black line.

Try using a blue marker. The wavelength of blue light (which is what is reflected off of the blue marker) is registered more readily by the human eye. Red is up there too though. Black would be just about impossible to see I think. BTW, I did this on the Wosty and discovered a serious bevel issue there.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use a pin to feel for a burr, a burr can catch hair but will not shave well.

The blade did have a burr on one side when I got it. I took that off in a few circles. I'm certain there's no burr/wire edge now.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Use a light stroke.Tests against hair are an individual thing.They work for some folk and not for others.

Definitely using a light stroke...and no longer seeking to learn much if anything from the HHT...it simply doesn't seem to work for me.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

You can try a sharp DE blade to compare.
If a good DE does not pass then it is likely the hair.
Oil on the razor messes it up. And sure
try the HHT on a dull DE before you put it in the dead
razor save.

By the time I got home to wife and kids and dinner and bedtime and so on, I forgot about testing the DE blade on the HHT and TPT. I'll do that tonight for the education it might bring.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

If you only have one straight switch to a tossable and do not punish your face.

Dropped the Sterling and shaved with the Fatboy DE last night. Had a little burn remaining this morning, but it's already disappearing.

Originally Posted by Kees

You must remember though that many vintage razors were sharpened on narrower hones by their previous owners so when you take them to a 3" hone you'll find the cutting edge won't be making contact with the hone along its entire length. On many razors you'll have to remove a lot of metal to adapt the edge to 3" honing. Most vintage hones are less than 3", many of us like to use them, I do as well.

My 220/500 Norton is 2", my Barber's Hone is 2", my Strop is 2.5", My 3K/4K setup is 3" but I use an X stroke on them anyway. That's how my grandfather taught me to sharpen knives...probably carried over from his father teaching him to sharpen knives/razors. Sure wish he was still around for this kind of stuff.

Thanks again for the input and advice. I'll play around with it some more, as there's just nothing to play around with on the Fatboy, and I'm not the type that can sit watching the news or what have you, and not be doing something with my hands.

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.