Thread: Hair Popping Honing Help.

Originally Posted by daflorc

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.

Daflorc--I appreciate your input. Let's take it easy on Oni though. I never expected this thread to get this much attention. I'm glad for the input everyone's given, and don't want to risk the thread devolving into any kind of match.

For any readers that happen upon this thread, it may be very beneficial for them to realize everything you just pointed out.

And YES, I'm new at sharpening razors: in practice. This would be razor number three that I've worked on. #1 had some pitting in the bevel, I worked on it with just the 500 and the Barber hone and got the best results I've found so far (It was a Genco Gold Seal 5/8 Hollow), but it's no longer available. #2 Was the J. Wosty. It's got grind issues from someone who didn't know what they were doing and tried to sharpen it by lifting the spine (like a pocket knife or something). I can scrape it down with the 220/500 but can't get it over the hump by jumping to a 3/4K but that's all I have available to me right now, so it's been set aside for sunny days. #3 is the Sterling that brought me to start this thread.
************************
************************
For the guys that haven't honed a razor at all before, go watch the vids (I recommend Glen's) and read as much as you can, it will be worth while.

For me, I'm confident enough in my familiarity in working with steel in other capacities that I believe I am understanding what Oni says about pressure, or what Glen says about torquing the razor, and I'm confident in my ability to determine if I've over-honed a razor (by the use of too much pressure). And, unless I'm wrong (and no one has said that I am so far) I think I've got a good understanding of how to determine if a bevel isn't set, if there's a wire edge/burr, if there's warping, etc. These are all things that need to be learned, thought about, practiced with and I encourage anybody who hasn't done the reading and vid-watching to go do that...please.

Both Oni and Da have valid points. Listen to BOTH of them.

Originally Posted by Lynn

If you watch both videos from the NC Gathering of 09, I think they will help you a lot. There is discussion on testing as you go. I am a fan of some pressure on the 1K and 4K at first followed by no pressure on the 4K to finish...Have fun, Lynn

Lynn, those are good videos...but I have to say that I have a hard time hearing everything on those. Next time you get together in the Omaha/Des Moines area (HA!) let me know and I'll mic you up for better audio. Still, got a lot out of them and appreciate you imparting your wisdom to the masses! Great angle for showing the water displacement, and the elbow high tip was a light bulb for me.

Edit: Just watched them again...remembered the forearm segment in the second clip, but somehow I missed the question "are you shaving hairs or popping hairs." That would have answered my first Q in this thread. Not sure how I missed/forgot that.

BigJim, you're right, Oni is a good guy, and I like him because he takes it easy on me when I ask stupid questions (and I do Didn't realize I was being hard..

I just hate to see a guy pull his hair out because he's still confused, after all the advice given. I think its hard for a lot of guys to advise newbees because they are so far advanced from that stage. They hear a question/problem, and overanalyze it, when it's really probably something simple.

Nice thing is, everybody's just trying to help!

Originally Posted by BigJim

I have a 220, a 500, a 3K equivalent, a 4K equivalent, and a Barber Hone that's the +/- 10K and the reason for the +/-. Glen's a beast of a honer, but he can set a bevel at 4K and I don't trust the 500 to do it. Maybe the 3k would be a better choice, but this is like spitting in a tornado.

BTW, the 220/500 is lapped perfectly flat...so is the Barber Hone. The 3K/4K is a wet/dry paper setup mounted on glass and rolled on, but I'm less confident about it, and might try re-doing it with a press instead of a roller

To make sure I'm understanding correctly... The exact equipment you're using is:
220 stone
500 stone
3K wet/dry sandpaper on glass
4K wet/dry sandpaper on glass
Barber Hone

Correct?

I have never attempted honing anything with that setup, so take this with a grain of salt... But if someone put that in front of me and said "go" I would start with the 3k sandpaper and some pressure to set the bevel, and a few more strokes with no pressure once it's set. (for me a set bevel cuts arm hair. I think people have different definitions of 'pop' so I try not to use it. If "popping" means that the hair falls immediately on contact with the blade, no I don't need that to say my bevel is set. If it cuts hair at skin level I move on ~ check multiple points along the edge)
I would do some no pressure strokes on the 4k sandpaper, it shouldn't take a lot... 3k to 4k isn't much of a jump.
Then the barber hone... Normally you don't do a lot of laps on a barber hone. In this case I think you're going to have to. The edge is not going to be as smooth as it could be, but given a choice between an edge finished at 4k and low laps on a barber hone, vs. high laps on a barber hone, I'll take the high laps. The key here is NO PRESSURE. None at all. High laps and pressure will kill your edge. How many laps you need, I'm not sure. I would just keep going and stop every so often to strop and test to see how it is. With the high laps on the barber hone, you'll probably benefit from lots of laps on the strop as well.

That's what I would try anyway. Good luck!

You give a lot of expert advice for a self proclaimed "newbee".

Originally Posted by daflorc

Onimaru-

BigJim is a newbee, like me.(he said so, and I think also said it was his first razor, first time?) Do you really suggest he try to set a bevel with a 5k stone? Or putting any pressure on the blade to set the bevel?
Would you advise against lapping his new sharpening stone?

And if the guy really just wants to sharpen his razor, would it be easier for him to learn on a 3 in wide norton, that will help correct his stroke(like training wheels, by allowing him to keep the whole blade on the stone at once and just move it forward) or try keeping the razor flat on a 1 1/2" wide stone with an x-stroke?

Gotta keep it simple. BigJim is not a veteran, he's new at this, like me, and any way to simplify the process and take out the variables will make his life easier. There are a lot of factors at play that are critical for success. What if he never lapped his stones? Or lowered the handle and lifted the blade, as he was making an x-stroke(causing the edge of the razor to scrape the edge of the stone) or what if he's putting too much pressure, but thought it was OK because you told him it was OK when setting the bevel, so he lays on the blade and puts 20-30lbs of pressure on it?

Btw, I'm sure kees is right that a razor only honed on a narrow stone will not take to a 3" stone easily. I did not think of that.

There's a man who can analyze data and synthesize a response. (HNSB)

You hit it nail on the head...and that's what I'm going for. I may just need to be more patient with it.

I should note: the sandpaper is 1500grit, and 2000 grit which I have read equates to a 3K and a 4K equivalent. (I've seen it more than once here on SRP).

ALSO: A GREAT BIG GIANT NOTE THAT IS IN ALL CAPS TO CATCH PEOPLE'S ATTENTION! I would NOT, I repeat NOT suggest this to a new guy. This is me being stubborn, wanting to get into straight shaving, responding to some bad luck that's come my way, and trying to find an option based off of what I have on hand and what I can do with it. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. DO NOT TRY THIS if you have any ounce of sanity.

This has been a public service announcement.

Thank you all once again for joining in my insanity and coaching me through it.

Peace,

There comes a time when one must adjust the dials to clear the static from the channel so that the message comes through clear...

Please continue with you regularly scheduled program ....

FWIW: I just stumbled upon two new hones (no real progress on the Sterling, but my focus was shifted when I got my razors back from honing), and would really appreciate you guys weighing in on them.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...inds-pics.html

Thanks to all of you,

Swaty is an all-time favourite. Carborundum did make barber hones. The one on the pic is not for razors.