Thread: Definitions..Wedge, 1/4, 1/2 full hollow

It seems that we on this forum are of a difference about what is a wedge grind, 1/4 hollow 1/2 hollow etc. It would benefit us all if a common standard could be developed and/ or referred to, i.e. Razor Central. I have seen wedges described as only those razors with no concave grind to them at all or as razors with a single concave grind.
There is also some confusion as to what is a 1/4 hollow, 1/2 hollow etc.

From the reading I have done of the Razor Central pdf manual my understanding of a wedge is a single concave grind that extends all the way to the edge. However, one of the gif's shows a wedge as having no concave grind at all, but then it is a small gif. That same gif shows a 1/4 and a 1/2 hollow grind as having a single concave grind starting at the spine and extending down to 3/4 or 1/2 of the blades width respectively.
The bottom 1/4 is a single thickness on the 1/4 hollow grind and the bottom 1/2 is a single thickness on the 1/2 hollow grind.

However, if you continue reading that document where the process of grinding a bi-concave (full hollow) razor is described then some confusion occurs. There it refers to some razors as 1/4 hollow and 1/2 hollow.

My understanding is that a wedge can be either a pure flat grind with no concave or a single concave grind that extends all the way to the edge.

A 1/4 hollow grind is a single concave grind where the concave portion extends from the spine down 3/4 of the width of the blade with the bottom 1/4 being of a single thickness.

A 1/2 hollow grind is a single concave grind where the concave portion extends from the spine down 1/2 of the width of the blade with the bottom 1/2 being of a single thickness.


Can we develop/agree on a standard for reference and common agreement?

So far, in my limited experience, the differences in descriptions of the same type of grind I've noticed are subtle. Having said that, I find the descriptions/definitions you have to be perfect, and, I see no reason why they shouldn't serve as the benchmark.

Since we're on the topic, I do however have a question myself.
Is it exclusively the grind that defines a wedge? One thing I've seemed to notice about every wedge I can remember is that they all have a curve in the spine.

The Wacker 1/4 hollows on John Crowley's store are ground from the spine to the edge.

I suspect that these definitions and grinds have changed over the centuries, as well as from maker to maker. Are we trying to impose order that was never really there to begin with?

Randy,

a full hollow is commonly called a 1/1 hollow grind. How does this fit into your scheme?

Redwoood

I think one of the problems with trying to fit all razors into one definition of the various grinds is that though a particular type of grind has a textbook profile in reality each master grinder (or whatever thay were called) had his own idea of what constituted the best grind for a particular type and imparted that person's own ideas in each razor he produced. I'll bet if you at random took 20 razors of each type and looked at them under high magnification you'll see plenty of variation in each razor that departs from the textbook profile for each type.

Also as an aside here I have two framback razors and if you look at the profile of the entire razor once the blade extends past the frame both have no real contour to them. They are like a razor blade, just straight metal kind of like a feather I guess. So what kind of grind is that? I haven't a clue.

As far as I have seen a wedge is defined by its grind. Not all wedges have a curved spine. An example would be one of the "Spike" razor's. Most of those are 4/8 with a shallow single concave grind and a straight spine.

Originally Posted by ToxIk

Since we're on the topic, I do however have a question myself.
Is it exclusively the grind that defines a wedge? One thing I've seemed to notice about every wedge I can remember is that they all have a curve in the spine.

Originally Posted by mparker762

The Wacker 1/4 hollows on John Crowley's store are ground from the spine to the edge.

I suspect that these definitions and grinds have changed over the centuries, as well as from maker to maker. Are we trying to impose order that was never really there to begin with?

This is an example of what I am referring to. I would refer to that as a "Wedge". I have invited John Crowley to post in this thread but so far he has not done so. My point of reference is the Razor Central document put together by Arthur Boone. However, that document is not 100 % clear in the definitions.

I would agree that over time perhaps all manner of grinds have been done. From one of the advertisements of old you can see 16(?) different grinds from one manufacturer ( I cannot remember the exact number). In addition when I look at my razors I see all manner of grinds. What I am trying to do is not to impose order on chaos but rather to establish some sort of guideline for descriptive nomenclature.

The framebacks have what is called a "Flat Grind" i.e. no concave. On a couple of mine that I looked at last night they were ground into a triangular shape (flat wedge). I suspect that some were also of a uniform, very thin, thickness.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Also as an aside here I have two framback razors and if you look at the profile of the entire razor once the blade extends past the frame both have no real contour to them. They are like a razor blade, just straight metal kind of like a feather I guess. So what kind of grind is that? I haven't a clue.

Generally speaking, I refer to any of the razors with 1/4 hollow or less as a wedge, and most people I've dealt with haven't had a problem with that definition. I myself, despite handling hundreds of razors, have never seen one that was flat from spine to edge. They all have some concave in them. The entire face of the blade would make contact with the hone if that were the case. The only example I've seen of this type grind is on a chisel. If I ever saw one completely flat from spine to edge, I'd be inspired to make my own, since I can flat grind.

Bill had once posted a picture scale of the wedge from 1 - 16 1 being a full wedge, and 16 being full hollow. I found that helpfull. But in my continuing quest to find an 8/8 wedge it is still VERY hard to tell exactly what a wedge is. I cant be of much help in this matter, but I would love to come up with a common language thats for sure. It would make selling, buying, and trading razors much easier IMO