Thread: Oil

I've read of some people using oil on some natural hones (yellow lake and CF) to get a better edge than with water, why would that work?

I'm considering trying oil on my Dragons Tongue hone, would mineral oil be OK and if I did would it "ruin" the stone for future use with water.

Mineral oil is way too thick. Basically you want the thinnest oil you can get.

Regarding "ruining it," I don't know about that stone in particular, as I have not yet gotten one due to my continued annoyance over the shipping charge, but in general it is difficult to transition from oil back to water.

Ahhh well I've just logged in and found your message after trying it!

I had just honed a razor with my coticule "Kukri Finest Silver Steel", it was good enough but not perfect. The HHT was passable but not perfect. So I oiled up the DT and did 20 laps stropped and retested the HHT. There was a slight improvement so I repeated the sequence and again there was an improvement such that the HHT was very good. I know that the HHT isn't regarded as very reliable but the fine hair from my daughters hairbrush has tends to give me a decent indication.

Previously the DT on water has had a negative effect after my coti, so the oil approach seems on the face of it beneficial, but the true test will be tomorrow's shave.

I've got doubts about the ability of a DT, even with oil, improving the edge off a coticule

It's true that if you use oil, it ought to be the thinnest you can get. I don't know whathere "mineral oil" denotes some specific type, but any suitable oil, if such a thing there be, would be of mineral origin. Vegetable oils dry and leave residues. I have seen WD40 recommended here for use with wet and dry paper, and the same might apply to a hone.

I'm doubtful whether the use of oil confers any advantage. Honing woodworking tools etc. produces larger quanties of clogging steel residue. Water can be used, but as it evaporates, needs to be more frequently renewed. I think that is the only real advantage of using less volatile oil, and wouldn't apply so much with the much smaller metal residue from honing razors.

Oil does penetrate into a stone, and unlike oil, doesn't evaporate away. A new carborundum carpenter's stone, for example, is often stood in oil to saturate it. This will exclude water, so it might be a good idea to stand the stone for a while in some volatile solvent, such as gasoline or acetone, if the change from oil to water is to be made.

Originally Posted by Jeltz

I've read of some people using oil on some natural hones (yellow lake and CF) to get a better edge than with water, why would that work?

I'm considering trying oil on my Dragons Tongue hone, would mineral oil be OK and if I did would it "ruin" the stone for future use with water.

Why?
The answer is not obvious and short of testing and
science there is no way to know.

A problem with oil is that there is almost no turning back.
Solvents can recover some hone rocks.

In an old box for a carborundum brand barber hone is
a comment that if the hone is too aggressive
soak it in Vaseline. So oil thick or thin can change
how a hone cuts.

All hones need something to cool, lubricate and
clean (the right amount) the surface of the hone
and the steel being sharpened.

Over time folk have tried almost everything under
the sun and the best pairing is what most folk do.

Oil has an advantage of protecting the steel
from corrosion. Water has the advantage of
letting the steel corrode a bit. Water can cause
clay in some naturals to swell. Water can
also react with minerals and change the micro
chemistry at the edge (abrasion pH).

Caution some resin bound man made hones could
turn to sloppy goo with the wrong solvent or oil.

Dragons Tongue hone's are slate and slate is
almost impervious to water. I think this impervious
to water tips the preference for slate hones
toward oil.

I would love it if someone near me was to
slice one of the old slate chalk black boards into
3"x14" slabs and sell me one inexpensively.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I've got doubts about the ability of a DT, even with oil, improving the edge off a coticule

Agreed, there is of course the likelihood that had I returned that razor to the coti I would have improved the edge as well. However, the aim was more to find the best use of my DT it seems as though not all DT's are the same mine is very hard and took ages to lap. In previous use with water the DT has barely improved the edge I get coming off a king 6K. The shave will tell all tomorrow, but I don't have an issue with continuing using oil on it as it was a cheap hone.

Result of test shave was very sharp and very crisp with no irritation. It was an improvement on the edge I had and vastly better than any edge I've produced with the DT before. It felt different to a coticule edge maybe not quite as mellow, I shall persist with testing this technique at this stage I'm not sure which edge I prefer.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Why?
The answer is not obvious and short of testing and
science there is no way to know.

A problem with oil is that there is almost no turning back.
Solvents can recover some hone rocks.

In an old box for a carborundum brand barber hone is
a comment that if the hone is too aggressive
soak it in Vaseline. So oil thick or thin can change
how a hone cuts.

All hones need something to cool, lubricate and
clean (the right amount) the surface of the hone
and the steel being sharpened.

Over time folk have tried almost everything under
the sun and the best pairing is what most folk do.

Oil has an advantage of protecting the steel
from corrosion. Water has the advantage of
letting the steel corrode a bit. Water can cause
clay in some naturals to swell. Water can
also react with minerals and change the micro
chemistry at the edge (abrasion pH).

Caution some resin bound man made hones could
turn to sloppy goo with the wrong solvent or oil.

Dragons Tongue hone's are slate and slate is
almost impervious to water. I think this impervious
to water tips the preference for slate hones
toward oil.

I would love it if someone near me was to
slice one of the old slate chalk black boards into
3"x14" slabs and sell me one inexpensively.

Slate was used as roofing tiles back east routinely years ago. It's still used on high end housing. Just contact a specialty roofer and you can get all the slate roof tiles you want.

On my CF I use sewing machine oil (found at hobby lobby in the fabrics section) after Lynn's recommendation and I am experimenting with Kroil. I think the Kroil may be a little light. May try a solution of 50/50 sewing machine oil and Kroil. I recommend the sewing machine oil though...besides, Lynn recommended it & guess what...it worked as usual.