Thread: What is the Pyramid system?

Did a 1/5, a 2/5 and another 1/5 this morning. Then stropped on newspaper, as I saw that hint somewhere on the forum; then stropped on my hanging strop. The Henckels is finally getting real close to my others. But I'm not there yet. Great way to learn patience, isn't it?

In the pyramid you will notice a decreasing number of strokes on the 4K. The difficulty is determing when the bevel is perfect. We know that we are getting close by the results of our tests. So this whole process is one of zeroing in on a shaving sharp edge. As has been noted you continually test. You can stop at any point, strop the razor, and test shave.
Once you acquire some experience then you will not have to follow the pyramid. Your tests, HHT or thumb test, will tell you what to do next and when to test shave.
The 8k strokes are assumed to be all you need to polish the edge. This may be increased for some razors and decreased for others. So, the thinking is that you perform say 10 laps on the 4k and then 5 on the 8k. Then you test . If it is sharp enough then you stop and perform a shave test. If not then you go on to the next set of 4/8 and test.etc. You are gradually zeroing in on a shaving sharp edge with the goal of not overhoning( which is the most common mistake).

Hope this helps,

Originally Posted by Bobbo

Why the sets on the 8K stone in the middle of the pyramid after the ones on the 4K stone?

As I understand it, the 4K forms the sharpe edge and the 8K is just to polish it up before stropping. To me there is no point in polishing the razor on the 8K if you are just going to stick it back on the 4K for another set. Can someone please explain this to me? Surely you should just use the 8K at the end?

I am waiting for my combination stone to arrive before I do my first honing. Maybe it wil all become clear when I start honing.

Thanks

Originally Posted by icecow

After you use the pyramid system to get the blade sharp, and strop it, is it shave ready? or do you move to a finer hone or what?

When your starting out just perform a shave test. You can perform some laps on a finer grit if you want to. Be sure and strop 30-50 laps just before shaving.

Originally Posted by dennisthemenace

Did a 1/5, a 2/5 and another 1/5 this morning. Then stropped on newspaper, as I saw that hint somewhere on the forum; then stropped on my hanging strop. The Henckels is finally getting real close to my others. But I'm not there yet. Great way to learn patience, isn't it?

If your Henckels is an Inox(Stainless Steel) then you will learn patience!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

If your Henckels is an Inox(Stainless Steel) then you will learn patience!

Nope. Just plain old carbon steel. It really surprises me that this one should be so much harder than my other two that I've been working on. Using the Imperial from Lynn as my benchmark I've got my Double Duck and my C. V. Heljestrand as close to Lynn's as I think that I can make them. The Henkels was in great shape, nearly mint when I bought it on ebay a few years back for I think $12. Nothing to restore on it, but it's very slow going all the same. Of course the barber hones I know are much more slow than the Norton 4k/8k; but I could afford them. With a tight budget and a personal spending allowance of $10 per week, I am VERY selective.

Did a couple more rounds on the Henkels and it's ALMOST there. Finished up w/ my Double Duck which IS there. I made a mistake on the DD awhile back, tried to tweak it even more and overhoned! Back honed it, then did a 5/5, 3/3, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5 and it's better than ever. After stropping too of course. I'm going to start doing a 1/5 before every shave w/ the Henckels till it gets to where I want it.

Well first take out all your stones
put the 1K the 4K and the 6K on the bottom
then the 8K and 10K then put the 12K on the
top and you have a pyramid of hones...heh heh..sorry..ulp..

Ok say you are starting with a razor of sort of undetermined need for
sharpening...
I use a 1K hone to set the angle of the edge, and to grind out any nicks.
then the 4K to do most of the sharpening. Then a 6K to finish the
sharpening and an 8K to start the polish and a 10K to do the
finish polish. The end result is a very good edge. Providing of course that
A. The stones are all flat and clean. Metal residue can clog your hone and make
for an uneven edge. And of course a 'wavy' surface on a hone needs to be
flattened.
B. They are kept wet during sharpening the coarser stones need to be soaked,
the finer stones (6K and above) need to have a layer of water on the surface.
C. I remember to KEEP THE SPINE in gentle contact with the stone. I kept not
doing this when I was starting, because it was counterintuitive to what I
had learned sharpening knives and other blades.
The final few strokes on the fine hone are done gently..
Then the final polishing is done on the strop.
I have tried a LOT of sharpening systems - including the Spyderco, and
sundry oilstones...I USE a set of Japanese waterstones. If used properly they
rarly need to be laped .
The reason I use so many is to reduce the 'gap' in grit density and reduce
overall wear on my hones. I used to go from a 4K to the 10K.. THis worked,
but it took me a looong time on the 10K and it keep clogging. So I added
the 6, and the 8. Now there is very little accumulation of metal in the 10K.
You also should have a nagura stone. This is used for cleaning, raising up
a bit of abrasive 'slush' on the hone surface, and can do some minor
laping. These usually come with the finer grit hones, but can be purchased.
I well remember my first few attempts at honing, and getting a duller razor then
what came out of the box, MOST discouraging. However by
following the above steps I get a VERY sharp razor.
Now one is assuming that the razor in question is made of good steel and
will take an edge. Dovo, TI, Timor, Case, DD, etc are all good razors.
However now and again you will run into one on ebay (or elsewhere) that
was junk when it was made, and no amount of honing is going to make
it any better - I have a couple of these - (anybody want one
Annnd of course we have all avoided the veriously named razors made in
Pakistan, that will not even cut string....These guys are getting VERY shrewd
in putting names on their razors that would lead one to belive that they
are made in Germany, or Japan, or England. When in fact they are the
same ol Pakistani crud with a diffrent name etched on the scales....

Best to you all, especially the new guys. Keep at it.. And do not become
one of those folks selling a "nearly new" Dovo on ebay cause you got
fed up trying to hone your razor. There is help, and it WILL get easier..

jim being unusually wordy in GOld Bar

Several more 1/5s on the Heckels at this point. It is shaving OK, but not great. I am afraid of overhoning at this point; as I overhoned the Dbl Duck. Of course once that happened, I backhoned the DD then did a few 1/5s and it brought it up to snuff. Anyone else find that to happen? Could overhoning & then correcting it actually be a good thing? Or was I just lucky?

Its not a good thing but its a consistent point to restart from. Again, I'd start practicing using only the 8K and very light strokes, maybe 10 passes. Should do wonders for the edge.

Tried the 10 light strokes a couple days ago, and the Henckels seemed to be worse. Wondered if I overhoned. Anyway, tonight did 10 more R/Ts on the Lithide and it is finally there! I think I attempted too light a touch before and the blade tends to wobble a bit. Tonight used a bit firmer (but still light) touch and it worked.