Thread: Beginner story - the carter way

Originally Posted by Sailor

Hello, welcome and tervetuloa!



IMHO you are ok with your stones although you probably have to spend some time with 6k. Would speed up a little if you had something between 1k and 6k.

Thanks all. And it is nice to see a fellow Finn here on the forum. I thought I was the only one here, since this thing is really marginal in Finland. But I guess there are few after all.

I have been working on the filly on my 1k now for maybe 10 hours bread-knifing it and mainly setting a new bevel and profile. Hard work, the blade is really slow-wearing. The way things look it will also take a while on the 6k so maybe a 2k or 4k would a good investment. Although after you have gotten the razor once to shave ready, all the coarser stone are pretty much useless.

I think carter had some good points in his razor videos. And maybe I would have got better results if I would have dealt with razors before, but I would definitely not recommend his techniques to a beginner. Just my thoughts though.

There really aren't many of us Finns around. Only few since i started here on SRP. Most come and go.
But take it this way: as long as it's marginal, vintage razors stay dead cheap in local markets

I've had two Fillies and imho it shouldn't take that long to set the bevel. From SRP you will find a tons of info on honing straight razors.
If you are about to get you any hone between 1k and 6k there is only one shop i know in Finland that sells them (King, Sun Tiger, Naniwa, Jinzo, Suehira). Might be that you can find those also elsewhere, but i haven't looked for few years now. Norton 4/8 must be great as so many tells so, but i have no experience of it.

Honing a razor is bit different that honing a knife or tool blade. It takes some time and patience to learn but i believe everyone is capable of learning such skill. In the days of the old it was such an everyday skill that anyone could do. You've worked with knives before so it is surely easy thing for you. If you need any more help (English/Finnish/Swedish), just drop me a PM.

Tomi

Jep, I paid 17 euro for the filly, but it wasn't in good condition either. If I screw it up it wont be a big loss.

The place you are referring to is probably plektratrading. I bought my king stones from there and the guy was really helpful. Other stuff I bought from the internet. I am kind of envious for the people living in US since they have so many places to shop around and there are no postage fees, customs or vat that they have to pay when shopping around. Oh well, such is life.

I am getting a funny thing on my 6k king stone. I set the bevel on the 1k (edge looked good under a microscope) and started working on the 6k stone. I lapped the stone on sandpaper on glass and rubbed it with a nagura. Immediately when I started honing I could feel tick on the stone. When I checked under the microscope again I had some minute chips on the edge. There is something wrong with the stone. Now I will have to back on the 1k and get rid of the chips.

Thanks again.
-Mikko

I had my first shave with the new Dovo. Much better but not quite what I want or can imagine it can be. Nicked myself only two times which is a record and no horrible razor burn afterwards. WTG pass was pretty ok besides my poor technique, but the blade is still not sharp enough to shave comfortably agains the grain. The blade stops way too easily since it does not cut the hair good enough.

The dovo was not shave ready out-of-the-box so I honed it a little on the 12k, stropped it with cox on balsa and finally on leather paddle. I guess my stropping technique (or the leather strop) is not good since the last step seemed take the edge away. I re-did the honing and stropped it much more carefully. TPT seemed ok, but didn't pass the HHT test at all so I know there is room for improvement. Any suggestions? Should I go back to the 6k to hone or what? Also when I was stropping on the leather I didn't notice any draw.

The factory edges of the dovos I've seen need work with a 4k or so hone. The 12k naniwa just won't do it in any reasonable time.

Do you see microchips on the edge? How about that 6k hone - did you figure out what the problem is? May be you have leftover grit from the sandpaper you lapped it with. Before anything else I'd make sure the hones are good and working properly.

Jeah, I figured the dovo needs more work on lower grit hones.

There were infact few microchips on the edge of the dovo but nothing serious so I let it be for the first shave. I did some serious lapping to the 6k on a sandpaper. Now I did with 2 different grits and it seemed to help. But for now I am going edge trailing on the 6k until I get a good lapping stone. Either a dmt or a ceramic lapping stone.

These microchips need to go. You need straight edge without defects on it. Each chip means that the edge width inside it is additional 1/3 of the chip depth, i.e. if you have a 10 micron chip the hair sees an extra 3 micron wide edge when it meets the steel of the chip and that simply cannot cut it.

You should probably switch to edge leading strokes as well. Carter uses edge trailing strokes to make up for not lapping his stones. That 'theory' he has sounds plausible to a novice until you add real numbers with the size of the irregularities, unevenness of the stroke, etc.; then it stops making sense in the regime where we're sharpening razor edges to the limit of the steel which is fractions of a micron.

Lapping your hone and using edge leading x-pattern strokes is really the best way to do it.

BTW this thread should probably go to the Honing forum.

I got to the bottom of my problem. Stone lapping. It turns out that sandpaper on glass did not produce a flat stone thus leading to frowned edges (the center was higher than the edges). I got the dmt duosharp 8" plate with 325 and 600 grits. Now that is one useful plate I must say and it is also flat. I did my old razors first (filarmonica and the biedermeyer) from the low grid up. First, I evened the profiles on the 325. Then scratch removal with the 600 and bevel setting with the lapped 1k. Pass on the TNT and hair shave. Then I put a piece of tape to create a microbevel to the edge of the edge using the 6k, a visual inpection and then to the 12k. Finalizing and testing. Feels sticky on the TPT but does not pass the HHT with flying colors. I still need to improve my stropping technique and setup. The shave was also much more comfortable than earlier.

Actually I did have a question. How do I know when to move up from the 6k? Should I use TPT or something else?

Good job, you should try with the whole bevel polished, not just the microbevel. For push cutting such as in shaving it makes big difference (well, depends on your definition on big).

How do you know when to switch hones - the short answer is experience. You want to move at the moment just before the edge breaks down and develops burr or microchips. Before or after that and in the best case you have to spend more time with the next hone, in the worst case you have to redo it. Different people use different tests - how it feels on a thumbpad, how it interacts with various kinds of hair, how it interacts with the hone, some just count N strokes and move on. The common thing to all those methods is that you have to calibrate them and make sure they give you consistent results i.e. back to my short answer.

MikkoK, I think its great that you are jumping in with both feet, however if I understand correctly you are new to straight razor shaving as well. I typically recommend that someone learn to shave with a straight razor first as there is a bit of a learning curve. Learn to shave with a true shave ready razor, meaning that the razor is honed by someone who is proficient in straight razor honing AND shaves exclusively with them...preferably someone who has a good reputation of honing. Once you have the shave and stropping down (typically around 30 shaves), then look into honing. Even then, keep a razor around that has been honed by a "pro" to use as a benchmark/goal. The stones you have will get you by just fine once you learn to use them, but that's a whole other journey...